Show Transcript
Episode 4 – Nathan Dyer – Dealing with Anxiety to Winning The Premier League

Joe Partington  Welcome to leave no doubt, a podcast brought to you by E Perform form that explores all areas performance within football. From the biggest lessons from the best players in the game, to diving into nutrition, strengthen conditioning and psychology with the leaf practitioners. We are here to help you maximise your potential, improve your game and leave nothing to chance in your football performance. Welcome to leave no doubt, Nathan Dyer, thank you for joining me. Pleasure, pleasure. How you doing?   Nathan Dyer  Oh, good. Yeah, not too bad. Thank you, sir.   Joe Partington  Very well, thank you. Listen, to get us started. You were part of an incredibly successful Southampton Academy. During a period of time of where so many of you were graduating from the youth theme to the first thing? What was it that you were doing so well at the time, that meant you made that step up with so much success?   Nathan Dyer  To be honest with you looking back now, a lot of it was just having fun. From such an early age, my mum and dad, just let me have fun. They never told me anything about you know, the stresses of, you know, play in or when managers or coaches said something to them, you know, they'd never relate back to me. So I just had fun, really. And then it was a whole new experience. When I did eventually move to Southampton and started my journey. It was a new experience for me. So sorry, this keeps going in and out.   Joe Partington  I think if you if you pull it a little bit closer to you. Is that a bit better? Yeah. I think yeah. When the microphone is a little bit closer to you. That's that's a bit better. All right. Yeah, that's okay. Sorry. Yeah, so what was it that you were doing so well, at the time that made menu, you know, you made that step up with so much success.   Nathan Dyer  I think it was just enjoyment. Just loving the game, obviously, you know, as a young kid, all you want to do is play football, you know, your mates, on the streets on in the garden. So that's all I wanted to ever do, I think and then eventually, when I went to Southampton is the whole new experience for me moving away from home. Being with the boys that I've grown up with, from, you know, I was seven, so a lot of them were with me from that age. And, and yeah, I was just just enjoying every day really just just going out there and just wanting to just kick a football around, you know, I never put anything stressful upon myself or nobody put anything you know me. So that was probably about it. Really?   Joe Partington  When did what age did it start to become a little bit more serious?   Nathan Dyer  Hard to say, I'm not really a serious guy. So I like to, you know, have jokes have fun. And I have been told that a few times, you know, I was gonna get released because I was my concentration wasn't there. Not when I was playing, but just, you know, in training or when you know, coaches and managers were listening, talking to us. I'd always be goofing around messing about. So, you know, it was just, it was just one of those things that had to hone in for me. But yeah, it didn't get serious till I was a lot older, to be honest with you, even when I made my debut. You know, it was just, it was just excitement more than anything.   Joe Partington  So to try and get an insight into, you know, Southampton Academy during that time, because you were one of an incredible amount of successful guys really, and some of those guys have obviously gone on to win to win awards in, you know, champions leagues and things like that. So what was it about Southampton during that period of time that created so many players what's going on?   Nathan Dyer  And they created a family so it's a family vibe. When I left school, we moved into a place called The Lodge which is Basically, it was a massive house. So you had the first year and second year, white, yes, we all lived together. So we were, you know, with each other every day, we weren't with our families, our parents, wherever they lived, you know, we were there constantly, every day, you know, we had to give us, you know, shared rooms, everything was always to give us it was kind of like you developed like a, you know, a friendship brother, like a, you know, even a sibling kind of thing like a brother. And, and I think that helped us on the pitch, because, you know, we'd all help each other, it was never an individual situation where it was like, I'm not going to do that, because, you know, I'm looking out for myself, you know, everybody was together. And that's where I think that's how, you know, we went quite far as a group.   Joe Partington  So see, obviously, in US football at the moment, there's so many guys that are playing football, and the opportunity to make it is really difficult. I think that you know, the stats show at something like naught point naught something percent of nine year olds, and back in the first game of the academy that they're in. So when it's so difficult for us players to make it in the first team. And so many of you guys did that. What specifically was it about the coaching, you're receiving the football that you guys were playing? What actually allowed all of you to, you know, to make that step.   Nathan Dyer  And we had a, we had a coach called George Prost. And he was a French guy, that, you know, all of the boys that were in my youth team at the time would always remember him. And he brought that technicality to, you know, football at a young age. So, you know, it was never, you know, if in doubt, you know, shout ball down the pitch it was, you know, make sure that your, your body and you learn the game properly, learn how to pass then have to receive. So we had that that type of training, and, you know, we we pass the ball better than anything, even when we played ask no, you know, we used to be asked no luck. So, we're lucky, obviously, to have players that when they are technically gifted, and as well, so, you know, when we all got together, it just all clicked.   Joe Partington  And what did that feel like, obviously, because it's a new football now, you know, talked about a little bit, it's almost really competitive in terms of guys are trying to get an opportunity off the back of somebody else. And a lot of youth guys are competing with one another for same contract. But it seemed obviously, in that era of Southerners Academy, a lot of you guys weren't competing with one another, you're almost working together, and ended up helping the first team off the back of that, what did that feel like? When there sort of wasn't that competition.   Nathan Dyer  I mean, going back to, I mean, in my, when I was coming through, it's a lot different to now. I mean, my little boy plays football, and I see, you know, the change of, you know, even parents, I feel like the parents want their child to make it for them not for not for the child's sake, you know, so it's a lot of a lot of stress a lot of pressure on on the younger boys now to, to make sure that they make it or, you know, they do the right things, you know, I'm hearing, you know, 1012 year olds on nutritional food, and, you know, making sure that they don't do this and do this. And, you know, that was never the case. For us. It was, you know, obviously, natural ability. But, again, like I said, it was just all of us being together. You know, you always talk about him businesses, everyone has bonding sessions and stuff, we have that every day, you know, so it wasn't too much of a problem. But we knew each other inside out, therefore, on the pitch it came up. But I mean, as a younger boy, again, it was just wanting just to go out and play and be the best and, and, again, enjoy it. That was it.   Joe Partington  So I mean, you made your debut in the first room as a as a 17 year old very successfully, I might add, but say from the age of 16, after you leave school, like can you give us an insight into what your academy lifestyle and what your football lifestyle was, like, at that point? How, how often were you training and what were you doing? That obviously allowed you to, to bridge that gap between school and first team so quickly? Yeah, I   Nathan Dyer  mean, again, I think it was a couple of interviews a couple of months before I was finished in year 11. And my mom and dad said, you know, they're about to, you know, let you know, if you're gonna have a contract or not, which, you know, was a shock to me because I didn't I just thought you just carried on playing, you know, that's what I was doing. So I didn't know that that was you know, how it worked with the contract. So obviously, my mom and dad kept me away from from all of that. And then, you know, finishing school was, you know, bam, you're gonna go and live down there. But before we had like a bath satellite Training Centre, which there was a few of the boys trained down there. And then we all got together with the Southampton bass boys and you know, played the games down there. So yeah, so once that that kind of, you know, happened I just moved down into the lodge. And it was just also some go relief training every day. I think it was a Monday and a Thursday that we had to go to college. I say go to college. I think we done much work but we got told a lot a lot of the answers but Um, you know, that's what we have to do, you know, because obviously, I think to be an academy had to have some form of education. So gotta be tech sports or some some math, so they know what was going on there. And then yeah, it was just training. And I think, you know, then it was such a privilege to to train with the first thing is to say, for instance, there was an injury we'd be, we were in March would where the train at Southampton, first team will be up the top, and we'd be down the bottom. And if they had an injury, or they need an extra player, somebody would come down and call call one of us. And, you know, I remember when every time the coach came down, it was open, it's me hoping it's me. And obviously, if somebody gets called, that's in your position, you just, you're raging. Yeah, brilliant, brilliant, that's meant to be me kind of thing. So that was also you know, that kind of kick up the bum and making sure that you're, you're on everyday, because everyone wanted to go and train with the first thing, you know, and be that person to get called up, because, you know, you kind of felt on top of the world. And then yeah, you know, a few of us then eventually did train with the first team and, you know, just kind of kicked off from there for me, I want to   Joe Partington  get into that a little bit more, because obviously, that competitive nature that you football isn't the moment and you're talking about. If somebody goes up to the first team instead of you, obviously, you're a little bit hurt by that. And if it's you, for whatever reason, you must obviously have a positive feeling off the back of that. So if you're not picked to go out there, what did that what did that do for you? Like, what what did you do off the back of that feeling?   Nathan Dyer  It was a lot of anger. And I think, from from anyone, you know, if you, if somebody gets somebody got called up ahead of them, um, because we're training at the time still, so we trained earlier than the first team. So if you didn't get caught up, and we're say playing a possession, possession, or we're playing a game or something, you just see them you deceive, tackles, flying in left, right and centre. And it did get here a lot of the times, you know, but once we finished, you know, we were friends again. But yeah, I think it was inside it hurt because you want to, especially when you're playing the games, you know, with your, you know, under 17, or whatnot, and you're doing well you're scoring goals, or you're, you're you're the man of the moment, you know, you kind of feel that you deserve to be that one. But knowing what I know, now in football, that's not the way it goes. But when you're younger, you just feel if I'm training well playing well, then I should get those opportunities, which, again, is never always the case.   Joe Partington  So knowing what you know, now, how would you have dealt with that situation, if you had the knowledge that you do now,   Nathan Dyer  I think I would have done most of the same things for myself, which was, you know, again, just enjoy playing football, because that was when I was at my best when I just, I was free. Nobody, you know, when when managers trying to pull me in and tell me what I can't do and what I can do, it's, you know, it's like, I've got the shackles on so, for me, it was just letting me express myself obviously saying, Look, when you've got to do some kind of duties, defensive duties or whatnot. But other than that, you know, play your game. And that was always, you know, there for me, just to make sure that I express myself, but no one that I know now would always be, you know, just being a bit more smart, little smarter with, you know, things I've done things I said, you know, I never knew that, like, managers would watch you warm up, you know, even warming up. If you're not doing that properly, you know, they're watching that you're not even treating people around the training ground if you're not, you know, Dream people and with respect, you know, that also plays a part. So, you know, so many small little details that now I know that they do look at I think I'll do a few of those, those things much better. But overall, you know, I think, um, you know, I think I'm a kind guy anyway, so it just came normal for me to be that way and, and luckily enough, you know, I got got the birthday, I deserved.   Joe Partington  And so talk to me about the moment that if for whatever reason, you were asked to go and train with the first team. How did that feel? And what did that look like?   Nathan Dyer  Oh, that's amazing. Amazing. Yeah. Getting called because you because they had like a it was well, at the time, not 20 freezers reserves that we used to play. So they train on the reserve picture of the top little stadium yet the advertising boards on the side, and you know, you go men, you know, so you felt Yeah, yeah, this is me, you know, I'm, I'm flying. And obviously, I think when I started to train, it was like Wayne bridge was just about to move to Chelsea at a time. So, you know, there's a few few good players, you know, still playing, that I was lucky enough and fortunate enough to play with, but he felt on top of the world or, you know, can't wait to finish and Go and call your mom and dad and say, Oh, Mom was trained with bursting today. You know, because you felt that sense of the progression, you felt that in the managers was seeing your progression and felt that you deserve that kind of, you know, well done, son. And then it's keep going, I think, you know, I think if you didn't get that call to go and train, you know, sometimes in the back your head you kind of thinking am I doing something wrong, you know, but again, it's, that's, that's never the case. A lot   Joe Partington  of guys that I've spoken to obviously you let yourself have played at the top level, talk about wanting more off the back of success. And that's something that you just said there that, you know, I've been involved with the first team. And now I want that feeling again. What was it that, you know, that drove that feeling of, ultimately, once you've been in the first game, quite a lot of guys, you know, as you've probably seen in your career can say, oh, that's enough, like I've cracked it and take your foot off the gas and, and, you know, and the very successful guys, like you manage to have a bit and want more, what does that feeling look like? And   Nathan Dyer  see, a lot of people have different different ways. So mine was obviously, like I touched on before was just don't express myself. I mean, I love football, you know, to the death, you know, that's all I wanted to do. I watched every game there was on plateful manager, you know, that was that was me, some people have the talent, but don't apply themselves as much as they should have done, and some people a bit too professional. And we had a young lady at Southampton, a French boy. And he was very professional dev into letter stretching, you know, hydration nutrition, training, but ultimately didn't have quite enough of that, that talent to take them to the next level. So you know, it's not always, it's not always making sure that you, you know, you put 100% in everything, because you still need to have that, you know, that little spark going forward. But for me when I made eventually, when I made my debut 17 You know, his dream come true. But to be fair, it was a few of us, it was in a cup. And we all got caught up. So I think I will still Yeah, we're still obviously we've 17. So stay with Dan 17. But playing really well. And I'll score and so when I got queued up, it was exciting again, you know, I never really put pressure on myself. And when I do things always go go wrong. So I just kind of, you know, take it as it comes and, and do the best I can do?   Joe Partington  How did you ultimately realise that, as you're speaking about there, that putting pressure on yourself went wrong? What what happened for you to gain that opinion of it   Nathan Dyer  will be a few times when we'll be training, and I'd want to do everything. So, you know, my my position was being a winger. And, you know, back then it was, you know, how many crosses Can you put in for the strikers to score? How many times can you beat your man, you know, all of those kinds of things. And then when you train with the first team, you know, looking at, say midfielders, you know, unbelievable technical technical one can receive and pass and stuffing in, yeah, I want to do that as well. So, in training, I start to try and do everything, and you know, it goes wrong, and I'm, you know, managers shouting at me, or what you're doing, and I'm like, I'm just, but they don't want to hear that they want to know that you want they want you to do what you're best that, you know, the rest. We can work on. So So again, I think those those those were the few defining moments for me that for okay, just, you know, put those aside, obviously, still kind of try and learn in your head, but make sure you're doing what, what, what made you get there in the first place, you know, again, it would be trying to cross it a certain way that I just can't do and, and then when it came to the games, then you try and implement way too much information in your brain and, and it's not coming out properly on the field.   Joe Partington  So just trying to simplify what you were doing that that managed to help you. Yeah,   Nathan Dyer  100% Simplify. I mean, I seen when John stones came back, playing with Man City, and you know, scoring those goals, and I think Michael Richards is a good friend of mine, he was saying, how he just stripped everything back, you know, went back to being simple but effective. And, and as a footballer, you want to be able to have everything in your, you know, in your toolbox, you want to sing the ball, you want to ping it here, you want to do this on a volley. But not everybody can do you know that some, a lot of people are good at that and the rest of others. So yeah, literally was just, you know, stripping it back. And I knew I had the piece. So that was that was what I was I was headed for. And that's what I used to obviously try and propel me to the next level.   Joe Partington  So using some of these guys, obviously, that that you play with it during that period of time, as an example, spoke about a little bit before these guys and you know, talk about Walker and Gareth Bale, Gareth Bale in particular is is you know, as one of the world's finest ever footballers. Could you see during that time that he was going to emerge as that and what sort of stuff was he doing to allow himself drunk into to reach the levels that he has done?   Nathan Dyer  Yeah. Now I say this is a story I like to tell people because especially with the younger boys now. I want them to understand that, you know, your development comes at such a different time. You know, pheo, for instance, didn't start playing football until he was about 12 I think, you know, for some months and 12 or 14 and then you had Gareth Bale always had a great left foot. But physically, you know, he was tall, you know, he was he was a bit Ganguly you know, it didn't have he hadn't grown into his body such. And I was a year older than him. So when he was coming into his, to live at the lodge as a as a YTS, they said to him, you know, we were gonna keep you for the year on trial kind of thing and see, you know, how you developed and obviously, he just kicked off on them. But, you know, it's always hard for, I think, for coaches or anyone to see, yeah, he's gonna be, you know, the best, or he's gonna be this because everybody develops at their own rate, you know, some quicker than others, you know, we had a caddy that, thank you from the age of 12, or 14, they tried to tie him down, you know, to, to a contract, and by the time it got to that stage to go and, you know, be be professional YTS everybody compares them, you know, so he ended up, you know, not playing for Southampton. So, you know, like I say you're develop at different times, and Gareth was one of those ones. And next thing, you know, he just grew and his body got powerful, he was always fit, but never had that piece, uh, you see, now you know, and then from then on, it was just, yeah, so you can start making   Joe Partington  a move on from those sort of UTM days of May, if I can, and, and after establishing yourself in the first name for, you know, for a long period of time, in July 2008, you sort of had a challenging time with with a bit of a contract dispute, and something that I've read about and it's something that I wanted to touch on a little bit, just because supporters and fans and players don't really get access to something happening like that. And obviously, that you were playing at such a high level at the time. And we're sort of not included in any preseason friendlies. I think there was something else that you were excluded from, you know, from the first team in the public or something like that. And I really want to know, just getting an insight into what that feels like, for a player because these are the sort of stuff that that people don't really see that   Nathan Dyer  Southampton. Yeah. So that was again, you know, when you're, when you're younger, you know, you're turning into a man, everything's going on, you know, you've got your football, but obviously, you still got you know, a bit of social life and you know, being in college, you make friends with other people, and when you go out and about, just want to go have fun, you know, and drink comes into it, alcohol and all the rest of it party, and nobody's there to, to not rein you in, but just make sure that, you know, you're not going off the wrong path kind of thing. And I think it was, I had an injury that I was coming back from, and I think I'll still should have been in the booth, but, you know, put my shoes on, because somebody said, I come in Kinos, you know, down and gives them Portsmouth. So I ended up going down there, having a good time and whatnot. And, and after the show would finish. I think a few of these guys who I have no idea who they were, you know, they started in, they started taking things from this room. And by guilty by association, I was there, you know, so I was by the door, obviously, Bradley Wright Phillips was there as well. And then in I think the next day Nigel person was my manager at the time and just called me said I need to come in, spoke to me and said, you know, you know, showed me and told me what was happening. But all in all, when you know, when you see when you obviously no one can see the footage back, but when you see it, you know, you see what's happening and but that didn't matter because I was footballer. And so it was Bradley, that we were the only two that they cared about, they didn't care about anyone else, you know, and it was such a dark time for me, you know, and my family my mom and dad, you know, cuz I felt like I let them down. And I eventually moved away, move back home for a little bit and used to travel down to train while all of that was going on. So yeah, it was it was really it's really hard, hard situation that had to come through, you know, I had people sending me death threats. I had people you know, hating me and writing stuff about me and then you know, you think about people back from back home, you know, my family, family members and my friends you know, they still they think that that's me because it wasn't you know, and again, I didn't do anything but because I was guilty by association and I was there at the time it things were happening. No one cared and once it's printed out there in the public, that's all they see. So eventually when I worked myself back into play when I played it some some of the some of the grounds you know, the abuse I got, you know, from the whole stadium, you know, trying to my name and you got to be tough, you know, you got to be you got to be strong, mentally and you know, I did find it tough I wouldn't ever look anybody in I when I was playing or going up to the, to the games, for I was on the bench and I've warming up, you know, I just get so much abuse from the size. And, you know, it's a test of character. And luckily, in a moment, that gave me the tools to make sure that I can overcome anything in my path, which I did. And I just made sure I relied on on my, my ability and my love for the game. I just put everything into into playing football, which, you know, looking back now was the best thing I could ever do. And, you know, it turned out well for me, because, you know, I could have, I could have turned to anything. You know, if, if that was the case, because of borderline depressed, then, you know,   Joe Partington  I mean, that's the sort of situation you're talking about, obviously, what happened is incredibly unique. And, and it's something that other footballers might obviously struggle to relate to, but in terms of being in challenging times, and obviously having to get themselves out of some sort of, you know, depression of football is spoken about a lot. But actually when when, you know, when you ask people about their careers, a lot of people have struggled with, with, you know, some sort of anxiety, some sort of depression, some sort of pressure in football, what were the tools that that you did use to help yourself get through that period.   Nathan Dyer  Um, I think it was just knowing that I had love from my family, my friends, that was as long as they knew the real me and my wife, Laura, whom, obviously still to this day, I just, you know, started seeing her. And, you know, I remember saying to her, Look, you know, this is this is coming out, I understand if you don't, you don't want to see him anymore. And she was like, What are you talking about? I know, that's not you, I know what happened, you told me and I believe you. And that kind of gave me that kind of, you know, chest out fine, like I'm gonna come, you know, fight the world kind of thing. Because I knew that people knew what I was like, and, and didn't take what the media and the public like to twist and put out there. And believe so that's what that's what kind of spurred me on and, and I thought the only way I can, you know, shut the fans up is on the pitch. So, you know, going out there and doing what you do best and playing well and scoring some goals, which I did. So yes, that's   Joe Partington  so obviously, like an extension of that is his supporters. And I guess people in generals perceptions of football as is, is that everything is positive. And for in 2009 is sort of think you've found it difficult to for whatever reason to be in the team at Southampton and ended up alone at Sheffield United. And again, obviously just you know, researching and looking into your career that sort of was challenging for you to play loads of football. But after this, obviously you didn't join Swansea and, and things were incredibly successful for you off the back of that. I'm interested to really get an insight for other guys listening to them to be able to relate to when things don't necessarily go as well as they'd hoped at some clubs. How important is it to stay in a mentality that you know, you are valuable? And that you can be successful?   Nathan Dyer  Yes. Yeah, it's a hard one. I mean, you just got to make sure that you see the end game, you can see that, you know, there's light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak. So obviously, when I wasn't really getting a chance to Southampton, and that was when we had a Dutch manager and he he was playing all of the younger boys, but yet, I was kind of on the fringes, I don't know whether, you know, from up top, they kind of wanted me to go. And you know, luckily for me, I had a few interests. So my agent said, you know, Sheffield United, you know, he wants to he wants to play us here, brilliant in ACO there and start enjoying it again. Obviously went up there. And it didn't go to plan. I wasn't it wasn't my style of play Eva at the time, shuffling my plate, you know, a completely different way. You had, you know, like the Chris Morgan, James Beatty and Gary speed was still there at the time. So I played with him lucky enough to play with him great man. And I remember speaking to my agent saying, Look, I'm not playing them. What am I doing? Yeah. And he's, you know, he just kept saying to me, trust me. He said, Keep doing what you're doing show everybody you know what kind of person you are, what kind of kind of player you are, and things will come good. Trust me. He said, You know, this is what you have to do. Said you might not like it at this minute. But you know, persist with it. Keep going keep training. Well keep putting everything into it. And I promise you that, you know, things will come out so it was actually a liberty when we will play in swans, Swansea shovelling it again, I wasn't in the team. I was in the stands. And Martinez came up to me in the tunnel and said, Look, you know, I'd love you to come here. I'd love you to think you'd fit in really well. This team and I just watched a Swansea team. Absolutely pop the ball around us. How cool? Yeah, amazing. Yeah. And it was coming towards Christmas and I spoke to the manager at Sheffield at the time and said look, I'm gonna want to go home and have Christmas for my family. Have some time away because you know again, I was in the hotel for four months on my own celebrate my birthday in a hotel room. And, you know, it was a struggle for me, you know? I mean, I made good friends still speak to this day. I mean, Carl Norton, who's at Sheffield. You know, I first met him up there. And, you know, he kind of helped me settle in. So. So when it came down to it, and Martin, I said, you know, come here, and I said, Yeah, 100%. But then I ended up playing like, the last couple of games at Sheffield, and I scored and done well, and they said they wanted to keep me. But you know, because I had a bit of a bad a bad time. But you know, playing wise, I didn't have enough game time I wanted to do. So you know, I was promised gametime here. So I came here. And you know, I started straight away. And you know, that was it. And   Joe Partington  so how important is it for guys, you know, all different levels, all different abilities, to hold on to, you know, that light at the end of the tunnel that you're talking about? How can they do that? How can they approach you know, training every day, when they're maybe perceived as not being in a manager's plants,   Nathan Dyer  it's so hard, because obviously, you train all week, you know, it's like you train all week to then get picked for the game on the weekend. And when you don't get picked, you know, you just go on to kind of meltdown mode, and you have to pick yourself back up and go again. And you know, so many times that you can keep doing it until you know, you kind of either stop trying, or you know, you start going the other way, and start getting angry, and you know, and then things go wrong for you, because you're not applying yourself properly. But I mean, my advice is just to keep to keep keep the faith, you know, just just not understand and know that you have the ability to, to keep striving for the very best for yourself. Obviously, everybody would always say, you know, just keep training hard, keep training well, but that's, that's also hard, you know, but set yourself goals, at least, you know, in training, say I find them you know, I'm going to, you know, work on this, this training session tomorrow to work on this, you know, and just kind of tunnel tunnel vision into yourself and see what you want to improve on what you want to do. Because, you know, you've tried it the other way, it's not actually happening. So keep doing that. But also, you know, kind of have a have a battle with yourself as to speak on the, on the on training ground, and you know, and just go from there.   Joe Partington  And we've touched on that a little bit about sort of youth football at the moment, but it's such an enormous amount of players now at youth level. And such a limited amount of space is ultimately in first teams for them to graduate to what advice would you give to these young players in that situation, that's going to allow them to make themselves you know, as attractive as they possibly can be to, to the people who put them in those positions.   Nathan Dyer  My advice is to try not to be the finished article, you know, because I think that's what ultimately, you know, everybody wants to do, and especially the younger boys, again, it was different, you know, was coming through, you had to go out and learn and earn your stripes, then come back. Now, you know, the younger boys are getting given a chance straightaway, you know, they're trying well, with the first team and it's like, okay, cool, you know, you can come on the bench, and then it's, you know, a few few minutes here and there. So, you know, we, but back then, like I'm always and when I was coming through again, it was it was, you know, got on loan, you know, Harry Redknapp getting my debut at 17. You know, I scored on the match in the cup before, yeah, brilliant. Next day, he calls me and he said, you know, what, you don't really well, please review, but I think you'd benefit on going on loan. And it was Burnley at the time. And I think you know why, you know, you just kind of seen what I could do. You know, I'm training with you all the time. Why are you sending me on loan? I didn't understand it, you know, I didn't it didn't register in my head. So again, you know, having, you know, people around me to say, you know, just go and do what you need to do. And you know, and they'll see what you can you know what you're capable of. So I did. And it was meant to be I think it was a three month loan, but I ended up playing four games, scored two goals, and then I got recalled back. And then you know, I played for Southampton then so, you know, for me it was you know, I was lucky enough to have a manager Steve quatro was at the time and you know, he loves me and kind of just kind of not centred things around me but made sure that you know, I was you know, a lot of the vocal points you know, because obviously dribbling and putting the ball in the box and the action by gifting no Williams I'm big guys that was just, you know, just whacking the ball in the box for them to score the goals. So and again it was what I was good at. So it was looking good on me and obviously you know, they were enjoying it as well. So yeah, I mean watching watching and seeing a lot of the young boys now you know, and the in England team you got Jude Bellingham who's obviously made you know, unbelievable move and rightly so, you know, he's a great player, but it's coming more apparent now that 15 1617 It's like, oh, I shouldn't be playing now you know, and that's not always the case every everybody's path is different. So don't strive for to be the best too soon. You know, just work on yourself and things will evolve.   Joe Partington  So by this point after having said for Swansea permanently you'd obviously add you know highs and lows already in your career. But the season after you sign up only 2010 11 You name the sports player of the year and you almost and you're also promoted to the Premier League Vita playoffs. Swansea the first watch team to do that and obviously in that playoff final you performed exceptionally well and you set two goals up I mean the game was for two wasn't it the one Yeah. I want to know like what experiences and what was it about you that allowed you to perform at such high level in such a high pressure game like that Championship playoff final   Nathan Dyer  thought I mean I think I always had that that grit and determination from such a young age you know, I mean, I was always quite small quite small and still small but I was always small so you know had to work that little bit extra against you know, the bigger boys to make sure that I didn't get thrown around or bullied. So you know in every avenue you know, any sports that I did I did athletics and all the rest of it and I was always you know, slightly small so I had to make sure that put extra on top of that but I always had that inside that you know, grit determination and and that you know, nobody can beat me kind of feeling so, and I think my mom and dad made sure that you know I had that that tool in the kit so you know it was go into that that final It was unbelievable. We had a great team obviously unbelievable team and the way we played football you know it was it was insane and it was just again it was just going out there enjoyment I remember we used to play against teams in the championship and I knew a lot of the boys there and they you know they before the end of the car let's have a touch for you you know say you know it was that was then gave me gave me a common invoice show me you know what we got kind of thing so you know it's just you know, in and out pop in and I love the way that you know Barcelona play Spain play or you know the Dutch the Dutch play the right way for me is you know you know pass and move and pass and move so I enjoyed it so much and when we got that chance to go up you know in the playoff final that's the first time and probably I've ever been you know I felt sick you know so nervous going up and you know the fans on on the walls and you know you just couldn't even see the stadium at that point and I just thought wow, this is this is massive you know this you know, I didn't realise at the time you just you know take each game as it comes and that's always been me I never look like I never knew who I was pain free games in free games time it was always you know, focus on the next one so yeah, when it came you know, it was it was a bit of a bit of a shock to the system but again soon as I got on the pitch it was I believed in my team. I knew that we had done a great thing we just finished furred great manager Brendan Rodgers, one of the best for me, and we just laid it all out it will go out and let the football do the talking.   Joe Partington  I mean like a lot of guys you touched on it there and I wanted to get more of an insight really into that feeling of the day the game like a lot of guys now are playing in often pressure games, youth football now that people are trying to have careers in football everybody's being judged all the time every single game is people are under pressure. And that one particular game is you know is deemed in English football has been the most valuable game in the world almost. So what how did you deal with that? You know, you've talked about not really feeling nerves before that moment. How did you feel in the build up to the game and what did you do you know, in the change room, how did you feel what was going through your mind?   Nathan Dyer  I'm just making sure I've prepared well, I mean, even from the night before just making sure that I did the right things. Obviously you know, you know they say they tell you what, what he and what to drink and all the rest of it but making sure that you know you're you can focus into yourself challenge yourself and kind of speak to yourself the night before I mean we we were lucky enough to work with a few people when I was younger, I used to work Southampton worked on envision in what you're going to do on the pitch kind of thing you know, so it's you can see yourself on the pitch you know doing x y Zed so that's what I was doing the night before and then on the day of the game you know when I'm in the changing rooms I was just making sure that everyone was relaxed you know when you're when you're too tense or the team's too tense even the manager if they are the managers or pacing around you know you can see that and you know you're used to it comes you know comes on to you so l bend and he was he was chilled guy and we had a lot of great characters in the change rooms that you know we were doing to touch and change rooms you know, we were ready for the game. Whether some of the boys had inside them you know in their head kind of had that I got I got to go you know I got to do this now. Which I know I had it portrayed to everyone that you know we will relax them from was fine. We're gonna you know, just go and enjoy it and have a game kind of thing. But for me personally. Yeah, just preparation just making sure that I was hydrated, making sure that I had, you know, all of my stuff ready. And I wasn't flapping around, you know, last minute to get get this and get him past and all the rest of it. So that that always helped me make sure that I went on the pitch then and, and, and as soon as the whistle goes, you know, I just zoned into the game and I was just fully into it, forgot about the crowd, forgot about everything else. But the build up can also always make people crumble. And so yeah, just making sure that you, you kind of even look at, look at yourself on clips, which I know a lot of people like to do. And I know that you know, you are the best and you can, you can do it.   Joe Partington  So what I'm hearing really, in the build up, obviously, to these big games is so long as you are held responsible for your own things that you can control and you prepare as well as you possibly can, at least you put yourself in a position to succeed. And if you've sort of cut short those corners, you're going to find it difficult or at least that's going to build to your anxiety.   Nathan Dyer  Yeah, 100% Just make sure that you do your job. And just, you know, rely on you know, your your mate next to you doing his job and everything will be fine. I think that's when that's when things do go wrong when you're not fully switched on or focused on what you're doing. Again, I like to listen to my music, before games, just again, zoned in on myself, you know, kind of just chill out and a lot of people have their different types of stuff they like to do. And some are superstitious, but for me it was, you know, just challenging on making sure that I felt good felt ready, you know, I felt loose and I felt and I felt ready to go.   Joe Partington  So obviously when that game you know you're involved now and in obviously Swansea Sabin was his first ever Premier League club. People always talk about how much of a step up the Premier League is from the championship. But you know, not only did Swansea managed to have a successful first season, you personally did as well, and you played in almost every game that season. was what allowed you to make that transition from the championship to the Premier League. So well.   Nathan Dyer  Me personally, I always believed in myself. And I always knew that, you know, I can I can play against play at the top level. A few times we played in championship, we played against premiership sides in the, in the cups, and I know the cups are different, you know, but when you pay against those, those, those top players, you know, you kind of think well, you know, I kind of held my own here, and you start to believe in yourself that you can do it. So when you you know, when we did go up, you had no choice at the end of the year to kind of sink or swim so but we had a good team still, you know, that we have the same boys that were together, added with a few few extras that came in and but we maintained style of playing the way we like to play. And that helped us massively you know, keeping the ball made us control a lot of you know, our actions and the situations. But yeah, there's a massive step, you know, not massive step to different things, you know, like tactical, tactically, it's different. I mean, you know, I remember planning at Chelsea against Ashley Cole. And in our switched off one minute, you know, I saw him looked away next minute balls, plating behind these blue and gold cross DNSSEC Oh, you know, so in those sort of things that you know, are a lot different to the championship. And I think it is a big jump, although it's a leap down is a big jump. And it's why, you know, you're done. Well, if you do stay in the league, you know, the next year. And we were lucky enough to stay in there for I think it was seven, seven seasons or so. And we held our own and I think that was down to the way we played and our philosophy that we had at Swansea, which, again, you know, we tie our players out, we tied teams out and made it hard for them. You know, we didn't just sit back like sitting ducks and let them run all over us. So yeah, it was it was a it was a it was a tough first year I remember playing against Man City. I think it was a guerra designed and he just come on and just did a madness and just banged it on foot. Okay, there we are the best guy ever Chalmette?   Joe Partington  And see, for us specifically, what was the overriding differences from you know, from champions in the Premier League level? And how did you prepare for that What changed in your football lifestyle?   Nathan Dyer  Nothing actually, nothing, nothing really changed in my lifestyle. As such, I think you know, you just I just carried on and I just played still displayed the same way. I think I was developing a lot, a lot more I was I was understanding the game and what to do and what not to do a certain times in the game, you know, like game management. And again, those are new don't those kinds of things only come with experience and obviously you got to play games to the I was fortunate enough to play a lot of games in the championship. And then you know, in the team, you know, for a long, long time in the Premiership developed a good relationship with Vango rango who was right back in it You know, we just knew each other inside out. So you know, cover in and you know, when the ball came to him he knew I was gonna be so that helped massively. And it just flourished. Really? So. Yeah, that was good.   Joe Partington  So would you say that you learned on the job, you know, whilst you gain that experience from playing, or was there anything you were doing outside of the match day, that was allowing you to obviously perform when you were when you were playing?   Nathan Dyer  Again, a lot of the time, it came down to a lot of coaches, a lot of coaching staff and managers that did help me, you know, they did speak to me and talk to me, and kind of tweaked a few things in my game. You know, I was always that person, that seems like got the ball, I thought I could beat you know, 10 people, and then pull me aside and making sure that they worked on, you know, X, Y, Zed, which I did do, you know, stay behind was, ended up working on, you know, acrosses, and making sure he's working on, you know, every day just understanding the game and learning. And I think what you have to do is, is also watch, watch games, watch other people, watch other people train other other teams playing on the TV and see how they do things as well, and then implement it into your game. Like I say, in training USA, today, I'm going to set myself a goal of, I'm going to try not to lose the ball five times as the most amount of times or, you know, I'm going to play I'm going to try and use my left foot as much as I can, or you know, right, but if your left foot, so you always have to set yourself goals, which I always did for myself. And I felt that helped me improve as well. And again, me being small, I worked on a lot of a lot of things in the gym, not necessarily big weights, but you know, things specific to my position to make sure that I had that, that power and explosiveness to, to, to maintain that level in the Premier League.   Joe Partington  I wonder if you could let us know a little bit more about this goal set and talked about? Is that something that you always did?   Nathan Dyer  No, I didn't. And I gotta thank, you know, obviously, the lights or readers who was my mentor from the age of 14, you know, he would always speak to me before games. And he'd always set goals for me to set myself you know, like, right, you know, you know, what did you do last game? Okay, this game, this is what we're gonna do, you know, so, you know, right, make sure that you get a minimum of eight crosses, or, you know, you do this and then the rest is, you know, just work hard. I mean, he always there was one key thing they used to say to me was, if things aren't going, right, just go and put yourself about, you know, things aren't going right for you on the ball. There, make sure that you you're shown to be working and putting yourself about because more times not that can, you know, overshadow when you're on foam. And people appreciate that as well. You know, fans appreciate that, you know, you work in work in your socks off and, and getting stuck in and, and involved and not thinking now it's not working. So I'm just gonna, you know, from my arms about and, and so on the pitch. So, yeah, I got that from Cyril Cyril kind of implemented that mean in my head. And that's what I I carried forward   Joe Partington  and what what was it about goal setting that that obviously had a positive impact on you. How did you feel a benefit of the back of doing it?   Nathan Dyer  Yeah, I did. I mean, without noticing you know, when you do play the games, you know, you're doing things that just come in naturally now you know, so I'm knowing you know, when I'm in certain positions or in a certain moment what I need to do because I've been working and training my brain for every every time so you know, I'm not I was never the best do an extras and as always, you know, I think if I did prepared myself a bit more maybe you know, I could you know, improve even even better but at times I was lazy, which I look back now and I wish I did extras you know I looked at I look at you always talk about and hear some of the greats and they stay after hours and hours practising and you can see why because when it comes to that that point on a game you know they can they can deliver you know I'm watching Gil fee so get somebody who's at Swansea soon Australian finish to go and grab two bags of balls go on his own if you don't have a keeper just keep putting in the same spot and obviously everybody knows in a premier league that is a set piece specialist even outside of the box he can put the ball exactly where he wants to so I wish I did apply myself a bit more than than that but you know the little bits I did do did help me you know again improve and and learn learn learn different aspects of the game.   Joe Partington  Do you think that for modern day football you know the the environment that we're in now that doing extras is important after training or can obviously can guys get away with doing without?   Nathan Dyer  Yeah, I mean some guys do get away with doing well and you know that that I would say to the lucky ones, but I mean right now there does there's 9000 times extra after And you know, he's at the top of the top of the tree. So, you know, it doesn't matter whether you have the talent or not. If you're not willing to apply yourself and improve, then you will, you know, eventually you will go downhill, you know, you can never football is you either up there or you know, you're down, there's no really in between where you just kind of chug along, there's very few that have that. So, you know, for guys that, obviously feel that, you know, doing extras is all that they have to do. That's also not the truth. Because you can you can over work yourself, you can, you can, you know, sometimes the brain is a powerful thing and overthinking things, wanting to do X, Y, and Zed, you know, you just have to strip it back. Again, like I said, and make sure you just do, there'll be a time, there'll be a time and eventually, you know, comes together   Joe Partington  and say this, and that obviously, as you've touched on is gone on to play, you know, the very top level and, and is exceptionally gifted a ball striking and is well known for his sort of long range shooting and stuff like that he was doing that daily was a   Nathan Dyer  daily daily, literally, you know, it wasn't a day that he wouldn't, and he'd get angry if he couldn't shoot, you know, the managers. No, no, no, shoot, he'd get angry and be like, you know, what do you want me to? You want me to do this on a Saturday, but you can't let me You know, I mean, he had that, you know, it's like, he was focused tunnel vision, you know, and I watched Tiger Woods documentary The other day, and, you know, seeing how he obviously it's a bit different, but seeing how he got himself into, into a into a situation where all he could focus on was himself and what he was going to do was was incredible. And again, I wish I had that a lot more. But I like to enjoy and laugh a bit more. And you know, I didn't take things as seriously as I could   Joe Partington  have. Obviously, modern day football was now's you know, as you well know, Sport Sciences is a pretty big deal. And a big part of that. Someone I've spoken to recently, he won't mind me talking about him Matt Ritchie talks about how he loves day now after training, he loves you know, practising wearing it feels that he needs to work on but now sports science is working in a way that they're they're asking him are you've done 5k today, so you've got to come in, or you've done too much, you've got to come in, how can guys obviously want to improve, but want to stay in a in a position where they're ready to play on a match day? Get the balance? Right? Between the two? How is that possible? In your opinion,   Nathan Dyer  it's tough, it's tough, obviously, you know, he touched on it. And he's probably an era that I was in where, you know, used to probably just get told, like how you feel and boys and it's like, I am bit leggy today, so I will have a down day kind of thing. Now, you know, you've got numbers always and I don't understand it myself, you know, is I, you know, get it. But, you know, you telling me that I've, I've only done this and that doesn't mean that I'm not feeling feeling it in my body. You know, I might be struggling, but I've only done, you know, a certain amount of numbers running wise or physicality. So sometimes, you know, generally just asking players how you're feeling? Or what would you want to do is essential as well. Because yeah, I think that's is coming into the game massively now. And, I mean, a lot of people think if this does look good, then you're on top of the tree, but we find players before that have had great stats. And when it came down to actually, you know, playing, you know, they, they weren't what was expected, but the stats at the time look good, which can also give a false reading of situations. But you know, it's ended there, even the managers and the coaches, your boss, so if you can't do any of that, then I know a lot of players that go home, do a bit extra at home or go somewhere and do what they they feel that they need to do, rather than having to stay on the train.   Joe Partington  So moving on a little bit in the space of two years, you've gone from playing in the championship to playing regularly in the Premier League and in the Europa League now as well as you guys qualify for the Europa League pretty quickly. The season 2013 14 You know, you're playing in both competitions. And we hear the managers you know, at the top level these days, always talking about, you know, fixture pile up and, and too many games in a short amount of time and guys not being able to replicate, you know, their level as often as possible. That season you were able to find a way of performing to a high level consistently. How did you manage to do that? What was the you know, in between each game? What did that look like?   Nathan Dyer  Was that when we were in the Europa League, and yet, I think it was just excitement for us. And just, it was different, you know, so none of I don't know. I don't think any of us have played in the Europa League before. So that was just a new experience for us. And we were just you know, going to these different places and playing you know, Messiah and all of them then places there was just like, wow, you know, he kind of thought yeah, this is a dream come true kind of thing, you know, travelling around because you know, a lot Swanzey at the time. Yeah, we've done well, we will progress into making those steps. But this is a different different ballgame, you know. So I think we just went off of adrenaline really. And again, We believed in what we were doing playing was we have some great technicians, you know, great players, a lot of foreign boys that that kind of help balance that out as well. And yet, we just went out there and enjoyed the time because, you know, again, winning the League Cup was a big moment in Swansea history. And, and being in Europa League was was another one. So you know, we just wanted to make sure that we just enjoyed it while it lasts.   Joe Partington  And that period of time in between, obviously, playing on the Thursday plane on a weekend fine on Thursday, playing on a weekend, a lot of guys playing at the moment, due to obviously, recent events, the schedules of football, you know, relentless guys were able to recover really quickly, what specifically did that look like for you like, what sort of stuff we doing and what was important for you to be able to get from one game to another?   Nathan Dyer  I think it was. A lot of the times, it's just recovery. I mean, you know, we were lucky enough to have, you know, allow drip, who made us, he just made us kind of understand that we have to look after ourselves, look at know, our bodies. And he, he played before, so he knew what it would it would have meant. But I think it all comes down to how teams play how players play, obviously, if you're, you know, guy that's, you know, put in very high numbers running up and down, then obviously, naturally, it's gonna be tough for you. But obviously, the nutrition end does come into place, and it's making sure that you're eating well, sleeping and drinking well, which I do feel does help you. I'm not 100%. But yeah, I do think that that that helps. And I mean, again, end of the day, you know that that's, that's your job. And you know, you got you got to go out there and you got to do what you need to do. Whether you need to come off, because you can't go any further, you go out there, and you have to give it your all, be all and end all really. So recovery at   Joe Partington  the top level. What does that look like? And can guys who are not playing at that level? relate to that? Can they emulate what that looks like?   Nathan Dyer  Yeah, I think they can. Like I said to you, I think a lot of the time, it looks more complicated than it is. And then we got a few sports scientists that in I like to give it the big one and say you got to do this and that but and they are right most of the time, you know, there are things that will help you. But I think that individually, you can find what works for you, you know, some some things that work for me doesn't, you know, might not work for somebody else. I spouse, for instance, and that kind of recovery helps other people. For me, it's just making sure that I sit down and rest my legs, you know, I'm not running about walking about having a massage or whatever helps players, sometimes, you know, it's not the case, case for me. So I think it's finding that little, little thing that works for you. And sometimes it's a placebo effect in your brain. You think I've done that now, you know, I feel a million a million dollars were you still actually the same, but you know, it's in your head that you feel good. So therefore, you're going to go on and perform.   Joe Partington  You guys had a lot of State pride of the championship played in the Premier League, and in a short space of time had gone from, you know, experienced in different styles of play, you'd gone from being the team that everybody expected to win to being the team that possibly people didn't expect to win games. What was it like in in your effort, obviously, expert experience in new styles of play and travelling, obviously, to different leagues, and an experienced experience in those sort of football games.   Nathan Dyer  It was amazing to be honest with you, because again, you're playing against teams that have a different way of playing, you know, the whole setup is different. I mean, we had one, we had a few Spanish boys come over. They were doing things that we were looking at, like what are you doing that for, you know, having siestas and then not going to bed till at one o'clock at night. And, you know, I remember the the coaches and they weren't happy with them doing that. But that's was implemented from them, you know, that was their, you know, their way from when they was such a young young kid. But playing against other teams, you get to, you know, again, if you if you want to hone in and watch what they do and how they do things and there's a small little details that they do do that you can you can pick up on playing against teams that are amazing tactically, attacking defensively, you know, know how to, again, like keep the ball for instance, you know, I think it's been there that, you know, unbelievable, the way they do that scene, you know, that culture helped a lot of us that were in the team at the time, put that into their game, which helped me you know,   Joe Partington  so what did you take from those games?   Nathan Dyer  Um, just things that you know, you didn't have to be 100 miles an hour like that was always me You know, I was always because I had peace it was like get the ball and go you know, and knowing when you can kind of just turn the volume down and then back up again was was a big thing for Me, and that became a big part in the way I play, you know, slowing it down. So I can people in making sure that then you know, so bursts. And I'm through that was a skill of mine, you know, kind of a one two and behind. And again, learning that it wasn't always I had to beat somebody you know, and doing selfish runs that opened up play, you know, it's all again, it's all small details that you get to implement into your game. And that's if you obviously care to listen and learn. But yeah, I enjoyed that.   Joe Partington  How important is it just gonna touch on that a little bit more that young guys, you know, hopefully people can relate to you are getting to a point where they're now trying to absorb information, they're trying to take things in, they're trying to, you know, I'm not the finished article, I don't know everything. And I'm going to continue to learn to be the best possible version of myself I can be How important is that   Nathan Dyer  is very important. And I think that there's too many distractions around now, you know, the social media, you got YouTube, and everybody can log on and find videos of somebody doing this. And that's what they want to do, you know, but the best thing is to listen to your coach, whether you believe in what he's doing or not, he's bringing something different to the table. And obviously, he's got that position for a reason. And you knows what he's talking about. So yeah, making sure that you don't go off on a whim and just try and do everything at once and just take into account of, of the professionals that can they can help you and ask for advice, ask for help, you know, not always think feel that you have to take it upon yourself to do this, because it might be wrong, what you're doing, you know, or could be right. In my opinion, nothing is right or wrong. And they just have to try and merge everything together.   Joe Partington  So I want to get in, you know, and spend a bit of time on arguably the most successful part of your career, but may not have been perceived that way. Obviously, when it first came about, just want to, you know, talk about 2015 When you joined Lester on loan, how did that come about for you? And you know, what were your first impressions, both of the team when you arrived, and what your perception of your own ambition was by being there.   Nathan Dyer  And it was a tough one, it was a tough one to take for me personally. I mean, again, you know, things that were happening off the field that people didn't know about, did play a part into a lot of those things. I just moved house in Swansea to another house wife was pregnant with the second child. And I just thought, you know, going off to the back of last season that I was doing well, I thought you know, I was gonna be involved, at least with the team gurmat was the manager at the time. And when they came back, it was obviously always competition for places in everything in to preseason. And then I got left out of the squad against against Chelsea away. And that was when you know, for you know how much was going on with me then. And then we had that conversation where I basically got told that, you know, I was no longer needed the club and I can go and, you know, find somewhere elsewhere. So I think off the back of my success again with you know, the League Cup and, you know, scoring in the final one man of the match, I think I've had a lot of interest. So there was a few teams that have come up to the premiership and a few other teams that wanted me to go on loan. And I said to my agent, you know, I just want to go and play you know, if they didn't want me to, that's fine. I'll go and play somewhere. So it was a lot of offers and I was on an RN and then less they came in deadline day it was just finished training at Swansea and my agent called me and said, you know, Leicester fancy, I was like yeah, okay, and he's like well I need to get there now and I was thinking how am I gonna go there it's like a four hour drive or something. So he said I'll call you back and then in the end the late chairman of Leicester he sent a helicopter for me to come down and scan on air there feeling like somebody else. So I go up there and um, and touchdown and and I ended up signing for Lester who at the time where we're doing really well in the league which kind of played a part of me going there you know, wanting to go to a team that were doing well in a sense I wanted to prove that you know I wasn't a piece of piece of rubbish which I felt at the time now I felt like I Yeah, off you go kind of thing. So I went to Leicester and I know when when okay, we often   Joe Partington  hear about players moving from clubs a club for positive reasons, you know, people are trying to sign people because that you know, they're in their good moment or it's a good transfer or whatever. But as you're talking about, you know often plays are moving because of different reasons or for one or another at the club and and for whatever reason it hasn't gone well and they need to move to play. If you are in a position where you are moving club For the perception of a negative, instead of a positive, how can people deal with that, being in that position to get the best out of themselves, like you mentioned that   Nathan Dyer  you just got you got, hold that fire in your belly, you got to hold that passion and that drive because, you know, you're basically being told that you're not needed. So then it's up to you then to go and prove them wrong. prove them that I am, you know, I deserve to be here kind of thing, you know, and that's what I did. I felt well, fine. And I'm gonna go and do I need to do you know, and it was hard to take when you know, you, you felt like he'd get forgotten about, especially after the back of doing so well. You know, it's a hard pill to swallow. But everybody moves around all the time, and you just got to do what's best for yourself. Again, you know, self belief is such a massive thing in football. If you don't believe in yourself, then you know, I don't, it's not going to come out, and it's not going to happen for you. So that's, that's the main objective. And that's what I've done. I went to Leicester And fortunate for me, I made great friends. And it was, again, it was a great family environment, literally, like I left Swansea and went to another, you know, family and everybody was together, it was a good laugh, and you no joke and and we just enjoyed doing what we did.   Joe Partington  So see, started that Premier League year of seven been up on it more recently, just just in preparation, but to talk to you. Let's do a tip for relegation really the star of that season. And obviously, as you mentioned, they started off pretty well. I'm not sure if people at that time thought they were going to be able to sustain that. But when you arrived, obviously in training and and around the club, you talked about being you know, feeling like a family. What was it, the less they were doing specifically football wise and training wise, that you think allowed them to pick up so many results? So early on?   Nathan Dyer  I think a lot of the players had a point to prove, obviously, off the back of, you know, having a few struggles, and there was a few players that needed to show that they were capable, and can play, you know, Jamie Vardy Aras, you know, can take a lot of those players, you know, I've come from, you know, the smaller teams in the league. And they had something to prove. So I think everybody just wanted to go out there and give it their all everybody wanted to play. It was a decent sized squad. Players still coming back from injuries. So everybody wanted to play. So again, it was just, you know, in training, it was highflying. We had Craig Shakespeare, who's your System Manager, amazing man. And he helped keep that kind of positivity around the place, you know, even that, that bridge gap that sometimes don't have with the coaching staff and the players, you know, he made sure that that was there, you know, we could, you know, we always had fun, and it was no kind of standoff situations. And I think that's what, that's what propelled you know, that's to to, to go forward. And, and do well. Like I said, we just went out on the beach and just played, you know, there's no, there's no pressure, there was no, like, we need to win it. You know, let's just go and enjoy it and see what happens.   Joe Partington  So, in terms of, I mean, we you guys like peak fitness, was there a difference? Did you see any difference between, you know, Swansea, and unless they're in terms of the day to day or on match days? Like, what were the the you know, the overriding characteristics of that team, do you think that during the start the season, obviously, we'll touch on the end, but during the start the season that allowed them to flip the switch from being a, these guys are going to get relegated to being like, these guys can be successful?   Nathan Dyer  I think it was, it was making sure that all of the plays, worked for each other again, it was it was you know, it was kind of like the oldest ones a team that I was involved in. And, you know, everybody would, you know, do that go the extra mile for that, that that that player that friend that they had on the pitch and, you know, there was no stone unturned. So, you know, a lot of the times it was it was just going out there and making sure that we we done what we were good at as well, you know, all of this passing and stuff wasn't at the forefront of Leicester at the time it was you know, quickly on the counter attack. And making sure that you you do things right everyone solid defence, you know, they were so hard to beat and that's where we based on based off of just, you know, obviously Casper, defence midfield and that the top and it just kind of fell together into a puzzle really,   Joe Partington  when you talk about on a daily basis, leaving no stone unturned. What do you mean by that?   Nathan Dyer  I think making sure that it mean everybody can see now for instance, how Jamie Vardy is and he's been like that from from the moment you know, I've met him it's an it's he was never a selfish person. You know, he'd always do everything for for somebody else, you know, and they'd always back you whenever needed. I think that ran through the hole in the team. You know, you know, we had a great captain. And they always made sure that everyone felt part of the team. So I think that that was, that was the main thing for Lester was just to make sure that everybody felt, you know, tight knit.   Joe Partington  And so people, players who either tipped and want to get your thoughts on players who were ticked, either individually or as a club to fail in a season. So there's always perceptions of on, he's not going to be very good, or they're going to get relegated. How can players involved in, you know, people being spoken about like that, or involved in teams that have spoken about like that deal with that perception?   Nathan Dyer  I think you've just got to use that to your advantage. If you're in a lot of sports, if you're the underdog, then there's no pressure on us. So you can just go out there and enjoy it and, and do do what you're best at do your best and, and most of the time it comes up well, because I do find in football, when you're when you haven't put yourself or the team under pressure, you know, you end up performing well, when you're under pressure, and it's a must win game. Most of the time, that's when you do wrong, it's the same as when you get given that one chance to go and play because you've been training Well, you know, you want to do everything, you know, and most of time when you do everything goes wrong. And, you know, you're wondering, you know, I did 110% in but into the wrong things, you know. So it's, again, it comes down to, you know, mentality as well. And, and we we just, we just went out there and had fun, you know, we had players like Riyadh. unbeli unbelievable on the ball, like one of the best I've ever seen, you know, the ball stuff to him like glue. And you just saw him just loving, just playing, you know, he came again, a lot of these players came from the smaller leagues in different countries. And so to have this opportunity, you know, they just took it with both hands and just wanted to prove a point and made sure they stayed there as well.   Joe Partington  So see this perception of no pressure. By Christmas, you guys were flying so much that the hole in the Premier League, you know, it's like around Christmas topic, Christmas is usually a perception of where teams are going to finish at the end of the season. It's you know, being tough on Christmas days is seen as a bit of a big deal in this country. Did ever the pressure or like the perception of Leicester can win the Premier League get that pressure either seeping to you guys, or or was there a perception that, you know that the mindset had changed? Because now you were seen as someone who could win the Premier League?   Nathan Dyer  Yeah, I think maybe individually, a lot of other boys would have, would have thought about it. But as a team, collectively, it wasn't until the early part of next year, the following year that say, February time that it was kind of like oh, you know, we can when they say boys, you know, because again, you we even we were expecting you know, is you know, we're gonna have a bad patch at some point. You know, you know, winning bloke won again, I and, and then it will just kind of snowballed. And, and it never came really. So that was when the belief then and the mindset change that, you know, everyone for what we can do this now, you know, let's just make sure that we apply ourselves even more, and, and then go forward. Because you know, you never know what could happen. And at the time as well, some of the big teams were performing very badly, which, you know, didn't take anything from what we were doing, because we beat some of those teams, but it did help a little bit. To to make sure that when we went into those games, and we knew that, you know, we can beat these teams, you know, obviously when you got Mansi or money knighted or whoever it was, and they're firing on all cylinders, and you go into that game, you just think it's gonna be a tough day to day, but it wasn't like that for us. You know, we will go in there thinking Come on, let's go and beat and let's go and shop the world kind of thing. And everyone had that had that belief. Everyone had that fire and as what we've done   Joe Partington  so I'm wondering if we can get like a bit the Backstage Pass really and so what a match they look like for you guys from Yeah, from that period of February, you know, to the back end of the season. What was the approach on a match day you know, what was being said in the change room? Who was saying What was the atmosphere like before a game   Nathan Dyer  it was so relaxing was so we always meet up at the stadium together at a time yet to be on if you weren't on the time of secret find every ad running in trying to do a face is tied in I always lay at an army finds ego. He was always late. But again, it wasn't anything serious. It was still with you know the fun aspects of fun, you know, banter side of things, and again, you know, laughing and joking and it was you know, you kind of went in and we will have pretty much together. And then you know before we went into the game everyone was able to do you know what they want and they had loads of different weather room that had different things that you could kind of go and do. Some of the boys sat down and watched the game. Some were playing pool darts somewhere You know, I on the phone, some some stretching, it was so many different things people were doing. But it was the things that helped them prepare for the game. And everyone has different, different things to do. Some people bought in theories and watch this series on the iPads. And so just as any end, it was just a relaxed atmosphere. And I think Ranieri made sure that everyone remained relaxed, you know, whatever pressure was going on, he would never tell us about it, obviously, sometimes you might read about things, but he'd never perceived that unto us. It was just, you know, leading the lead on, as he said, and, you know, go and have fun kind of situation in which what we did, and when you have leaders like Casper was Morgan, and even, you know, Jamie Vardy as well, you know, when, when they're talking to everybody, you know, it gets you up for the game, and everyone was raring to go by that time. So, you know, even when things were going wrong. At halftime, we might be, you know, worked on something and it wasn't going right. We all got together and halftime said, Boys what we do and stuff, this guy then do what we normally do. And you know, it was it was a, it was a in your face counter attack kind of team. So, you know, that's what we done. And it was a bit of a shock, because nobody really do it was doing that in the Premier League, everyone was trying to get the ball and pass and play him, you know, which was, which was rightly so. But we had that kind of sucker punch. Yeah. And obviously, with somebody as fast as Jamie Vardy up front, it was, I think Robert, who found time cleared the ball, it was that natural clearance, he smashed the ball down a bit. And Jamie was throwing goal, but and it was a goal and just how you know, but again, it was the surprise element that we had, from Leicester, which I think, you know, massively helped us, you know, win some of those games.   Joe Partington  And so how, how did you guys deal with that success at the time? How did you use? So the perception of Lester start the season is that, you know, they'd like to stay up, once you surpass that feeling, you know, in that position in the table? How are you guys able to achieve success by winning so many games, and continue to try and achieve more? What did like after the game, you've just, you know, you've won another game, as you said, we're all looking around, and I was on another one? How did you manage the channel that feeling into trying to do it again?   Nathan Dyer  I think it was a lot of things, you know, that a lot of players have things to prove to themselves to other people. Which obviously, you know, spurred them on. But as a team, you know, we just wanted to continue off the back foot of what we've just done, you know, I think that confidence is always high, when, you know, of course, when you're further back have a win. So, you know, we just we just got to move and really, and made sure that you know, we we were getting to a certain point and because our bonuses was looking a lot better then so everyone was like like boys, you know, come on, if we win this, you know, we're here this is this is what we can get, you know, in some people's life changing at the time, you know, because a lot of people a lot of those those boys weren't on a lot of money and coming from you know, smaller teams and nobody nobody had heard of it was life changing so and we had a massively generous gentleman and an owners that made sure that you know, if we we did to do and we worked hard and worked well and and got that success then we would get rewarded. So that was also another kind of spring moment for everyone was you know, we can we can change we can change our lives.   Joe Partington  So on the topic of dealing with success really, you know, there's the pundits and media and you know, in the press started to I wouldn't say he for a lot of pressure but there was pressure on Lester in the end to win the Premier League. And everybody was you know, was being really positive about how they got you guys were playing for other people to possibly relate to that feeling. You know, young guys who are now under pressure from parents or friends at school, say oh, he's gonna make it like always, he's brilliant. He's gonna he's gonna be a professional footballer. How can these guys deal with that feeling of success like you've got success people very nice about you. How can you you know almost zone out from from people's perception and do what you've got to do?   Nathan Dyer  Yes, it's hard. It is tough. I mean, I've for me personally, I've always been a humble person. So you know, I never ever saw myself as well as I should have maybe done and people always used to tell me that you know, you you're better than what you think or you've done better than what you think in your career. And you know, I was kept at level I was what that was the way I was brought up so but then you know, some players it can it can get a little bit too excited. You know, like you said you got you know, friends and family that you know you don't want their their ego to go too big. Because you know, football is is is literally you fall off a cliff so if you if you're not going to Can you do what you're doing? You know, you can be at the bottom to go very, very quickly. And, and that perception from media from fans and players is, is hard. And for a player, you know, and then you're you're expecting to, to go and do, you know, everything. I mean, I seen Harry Kane, you know, in, in the media today on yesterday and whatnot. They're, you know, on his back and you know, you kind of thinking Hold on a minute, this is a team, you know, you can't it's not just him. I mean, and he's strong enough to know that and how to deal with that, because he's, you know, an experienced player now, but you just see in the pressures that do come with football, and you know, when people because we are as human beings? No, no, the fans like to think that we're, you know, we're different or, you know, we should be doing, you know, I used to get total, we didn't know why I didn't, I never had money before, I was never a footballer before my family were, you know, normal people. For to see that, you know, that that perception of people is different or play at football players is different. And obviously, there is a stereotype, obviously, people play into it, but the pressure is strong. And I mean, there is no formula to tell you how to how to make sure that you, you figure it out. You just have to find some way that that helps you   Joe Partington  and see some of the guys that you you've mentioned talking about already, in that season, you can say admirers of I mean, Canada is obviously you know, a shoo in for Ballon d'Or this year. Lucky's incredibly gifted Mar is you know, as super talented, as you've talked about, could you see that every day, obviously, in training and just in general, by their personality, by their sort of professionalism? Where they, you know, they top top guys, and can you give us an insight into what what was like being around them?   Nathan Dyer  Yeah, it was, um, it was funny, because I kind of seen that transition, because I had been told before that they were the season before, you know, what they were doing, you know, in the Premier League, when the season was, you know, 100 times better than what they did previous. And they weren't sure what happened, but things just clicked, clicked. And like I said to you about people's progressions, you know, it could be at any age, and you know, you can just go from there to there very quickly. Who knows what it is or what people do, but it just happens and but yeah, you saw you know, that Morris is just a joke on the pitch, you know, with the ball is V and you can see how happy he was when he had it, you know, he would always be trying tricks and flicks and to touch and you know, you just just wanted that football every single time you know, and it was it was his. And yeah, he do it make people look stupid. And people be after him and train and then ink drink. He tried to try that try to break him a few times. But you know, it was then it was all in all it was it was a great time and you got candy. We had a midfielder called gokken in LA who was who came with Ranieri, when he resigned him, and he was the holding, defensive midfielder at the time. But he's a bit older. And I think that the pace was, was quite high. And obviously, you've got cotton ball a few times and X, Y, and Zed. But then, you know, when he came off County, when Tom and when he went on, everyone was kind of thinking, this guy. You know, he was everywhere. They think, Okay, fair enough. And then there was the next game then got put on again. And he did the same, I think, a minute, you know, he's gonna have to get given a chance here. But when I first arrived there, obviously, I'd done well scored, tried to be in the next starting lineup, the next match, but I'd injured my knee. So I was out for two weeks. So when I was coming back, and I was playing, then some of the under 20, freeze games County was playing in those games, as the boys that weren't really playing in the first thing would play in those games. And, again, didn't hear any I didn't know anything about him. So when he was given that opportunity in the in, in the Premier League, you know, he took it with 100 hands, you know, that was him gone, then, you know, he was doing everything that anything he can. And, you know, when he spoke to me, you know, he said to me that, you know, obviously, he's not just doing it for himself, he's doing it for a purpose, you know, he's doing it for his family, you know, he's got family to look after back home, which a lot of people don't ever see is what's going on behind the scenes, you know, you know, how people are coming from struggles, and they might be the one that you know, can can help situation within their family and he was one of those. So he got put on the map and he wanted to make sure that, you know, his his family are taken care of first and foremost. And then for him to be successful. I mean, he's, like everyone said, He's the nicest guy in football. I mean, he used to fail you and say sorry, and try and pick you up and like You want to bow and G like it's okay. You know, that's that's what you meant to do. And I Sorry, sorry. And I Oh, but I love him to bits. I mean, I could go through all of the players, they were the same again, Jamie Vardy, you know, just out and out goalscorer all he wanted to do score goals. Smash as as he could. And and he did that so yeah, I mean the watching watching those those players kind of peak and perform was was amazing to see and to see where they're at now because they're Moroz, you know, I knew that he was gonna, you know, he's destined for something greater. And I think he knew that as well. But again, he, he always kept himself level headed, you know, he knew us the best, but he was never in your face with anything he was, you know, he's a nice, humble, humble guy as well. And I think that's what helped the team and everybody was, was generally the same. Nobody was, you know, above their stations. And if they ever if they ever did, you'd have you had big waves or whoever come in the movie, and they take you straight down, you know, I mean, so you know, there was none of that going on.   Joe Partington  So see, during your career, you've managed to, you know, experience playing on some top managers. Ben Rogers at Swansea, obviously now one of the country's most elite managers you've spoken about already, how Redknapp gave you a debut? Louder, just talked about Ranieri, when in the Premier League? What have been the biggest lessons? I know, that's, you know, this is quite a large question, considering the amount of guys that you've worked with, what have been the biggest lessons you've learned from any of these guys you've played under, and who had the most positive impact on you.   Nathan Dyer  It's do what you're good at, do what you're good at. Don't overcomplicate anything, they'd always, most managers would always say to me, you know, just you complicate it, if you don't need to be doing things like that, you know, do X, Y, and Zed. And then when you do that, do what you're good at. And that did help me because like I said to you, I was wanting to improve and I wanted to do everything, I wanted to become a midfielder. So I'm running all over the pitch trying to get the ball and you know, I'm out of position, and then things are going on. So learning, you know, that side of it, they always helped me with, but most of those managers were just great man managers, you know, take away the tactics and play and they were great men, you know, just just nice to talk to, to make sure that you felt a part of the team. And I think that's so important, you know, if you if, if anybody is to become, you know, the best or what it is that a manager needs to make sure that everybody's together collectively. And, I mean, Brendon was a first first kind of taste ahead of that, you know, even you ask players that didn't really play, you know, they felt like they won and got promoted, you know, and played all the time as well, because he never left anyone out. And always make sure that you're okay. And, and always ask questions that not a lot of people ask these days is how are you doing, how's your family How's, how's things at home, you know, Is anything going on at home or, you know, outside of football, it's too much as is emphasised on what's doing on the pitch, which, you know, most of the nation see on a Saturday or whenever they play and don't know what's going on in and around them, you know, could be brothers, sisters, aunties, uncles, no matter what it is, something could be happening most of the time it is because, you know, regular people. But yeah, man management, they just, were always there for, for people and made sure that they got the best out of you. And, and that is the way that they did it in a hurry. And that was the same, you know, he, he knew how to get the best out of players without, you know, having to do extras with them, he knew that if I do this, then I'll, you know, get the best, whoever it was,   Joe Partington  and all of those guys that you know, are all completely different managers. How would you say that? You know, what can players do? To allow them to be attractive to different kinds of managers? How can guys adapt to different ways of working with different people.   Nathan Dyer  Um, I mean, you just in whatever they bring to the table, you have to kind of believe in and do and work on. I mean, sometimes managers come in and you're just not their cup of tea Simple as that it could be down to simple as, you know, they don't like the way you play or the way you do things. And it's and it's that because every manager has, you know, a certain style and a certain look that they like and you might not be their cup of tea so it you know, it's hard enough to accept that because you could have been the best last season or a couple of games before a new manager comes in. And he's like, No, not for me I want to do do it this way. And then you kind of thinking well done minute, you know, I've just been you you seen what I've just been doing and that's hard to take for players and that's that's something that I've had to learn myself. I know I've been told before you know, you can you know has nothing to do with you played but you know you need to go that's kind of why but so many politics involved in football because they until you start getting a bit older and learning and understanding In the dynamics of it all is when you understand, okay, you know, and then you kind of start to know, a couple of times I've knew on a Wednesday, or Thursday that I wasn't playing on the weekend, just by the demeanour and the way you were treated. So you know, you're able to kind of set yourself up for purchase, make sure it doesn't hurt as much as it normally would.   Joe Partington  This amount has been such a great opportunity for me to speak to you. But my last little bit is what advice would you have, you know, 17 year old Nathan Dyer. Just about to make his debut.   Nathan Dyer  Just believe, listen, make sure you listen. Obviously, always wanting to improve. But all in all, have fun. Enjoy it. You know, it's like everyone always tells you the short career. So just enjoy every moment. And in every aspect that you can never take things for granted.   Joe Partington  Thank you make such an incredible insight. I really appreciate your time.   Nathan Dyer  Appreciate and good. Thank you.