Show Transcript
Sam Vokes – 13 Powerful Lessons from a Welsh International

Sam Vokes Full episode edited   Joe Partington  welcome to leave no doubt, Sam Vokes. Thanks for joining me when I see it, I am going to acknowledge straightaway that this is the second time that we've done this the first time we did it for everybody watching at home or listening I press the play when I thought I was but I actually press stop so we've had two conversations. So I appreciate you doing this with   Sam Vokes  us very first one as well. So so this one goes is good   Joe Partington  Listen mate to get started. For the guys listening everybody at home who knows sandboxes the name but not might not know you as you know as a footballer as well as I do. Can you just give an insight to everybody as to what sort of centre forward that you are?   Sam Vokes  Yeah, I suppose in the traditional media centre forward probably a traditional kind of number nine but I think I just finished my 15th season now professional football so it's been been a good journey so far and hopefully a few more years to go and yeah, like I say in terms of football wise that kind of traditional centre forward it likes to get in the box and score goals.   Joe Partington  So that sort of centre forward that you're talking about as almost like a like a modern day centre forward and 15 seasons now even playing in an era of you know, being a certain type of striker at the top level is quite difficult. Especially now where people are only playing one striker really what do you think it is about you that's allowed you to be so successful over that period of time?   Sam Vokes  Yes, it's quite hard to put a point on on exactly what makes you keep going but I think is that probably that drive to keep going want to do well to succeed as also that that fitness side to it as well which you have to keep up and I enjoy doing I enjoy going into work every day. Don't get me wrong in football, there's there's harder times that you come across really more mental and physical, really, but I think it's those times that drive you on and keep you going but that's the stuff I enjoy, I enjoy the day to day working obviously accommodates in Match Day and nothing beats that.   Joe Partington  Hopefully we you know, we're going to try and get into loads of detail really about your journey and your experiences but from football obviously you just touched on there. 15 years is a long time to be a player from your first season to now what are the you know, the overriding differences between football and how's that really affected you and your role?   Sam Vokes  Think a lots changed. I think probably more has changed off the pitch to be totally honest with you. That weekend weekend threw together at the youth team at Bournemouth mate and talk about coming through at Bournemouth even that was a completely different club then it was a club with no financial backing and I think the backroom staff was very minimal. And you see kind of the girls that that clubs come on and I suppose football in general has now and it was a club with not a lot of money no back in and behind the scenes. It was probably just the manager coach and a couple of physio. So in terms of that, I think that's where football for me it's come on massively. You've got probably more staff than you have players now around the training ground and travelling with the team home in a way so the differences in that and what's at your disposal I suppose as a player now is is massive.   Joe Partington  And so for people watching and you know trying to get an insight into your career not only as a you know, as a professional, but in some of your football lifestyle. You're talking now about having more access to sport scientists and coaches and probably nutritionist things that that as your career has gone on how best if people have access to those kind of people how how best can they use them like that for you Sam boats as a footballer, like how best Have you been able to use those people around you to make you better? I   Sam Vokes  think it's important that you do use them. And it's easy to say that because they're there for you. But it's it's been proactive in doing that. They're there because they're at the top of their field, I suppose they've been at university and study in sports science and physio for to get to that point where they're working in professional football, and they're working at the top of their their level. So they're there for you. And it's don't get me wrong, there's different levels. I'm at Stoke now. And there's there's a lot of physios as Mercer's, there's fitness people. But sports scientists, but I suppose at different levels, you don't quite have that exposure, but I suppose luckily, at all levels. Now, there's a lot of features online, like ourselves, and other people that offer that access to people online now that that is out there to get it. And I suppose being busy and proactive in yourself and going to do that is is an important thing, in any professionalism, really, and it's down to you. Because at the end of the day, it's your career, and it's you are going to benefit from doing that and being proactive and looking for those things.   Joe Partington  So how have those guys helped you in your career, you know, the stuff that you've got around you? Can you remember any sort of overriding memories of how you have used them and how you've benefited from that?   Sam Vokes  Yeah, I think I think it probably takes probably takes a moment to go and do that I remember a specific one for me was I did my cruciate ligament in 2014. And for me, that was my first real major injury. It's not that I didn't use physios or sports scientists before that, but it took me probably that moment to realise well, that there is another side of this, that that I need to add to my game, I need to add to me as a person, and work closely with all sorts of people. Because for that, to be totally honest, I was a younger player that didn't pick up too many injuries. And didn't really, I didn't really do prehab before training, I didn't really do stuff in the evenings to benefit my body. And then since that, I realised that those are the differences that will keep you on the pitch. My ACL at the time, I thought it was just an unlucky turn in the pitch. But looking into it more with physios and sports scientists after there's more issues around your body, that that will happen. And it's a fatigue thing, and you can avoid doing that. And unfortunately, it ended up me doing my ACL but it's certainly that to realise there's there's other parts of my body in my game that I need to improve and get back   Joe Partington  with. Did that injury obviously that would you know, we're going to speak about in a little bit, but did that injury change your perception of your football lifestyle? Ultimately, did you make a lot of changes off the back of that?   Sam Vokes  Yeah, 100%. Like I said, I don't really spend much time in gym before went out training when I was younger, 18 to 20, Young, early 20s, you could just go out and kick balls all over the pitch, you probably know is like me, and now I have to spend a good three quarters an hour an hour in the gym before I can get my body prepared to go out and do that training. But I feel the benefits for that feel better about myself and hopefully a lot of injury prevention in doing that as well.   Joe Partington  So let's you know, talk about football specifically, in terms of the game, how has How has the game changed since you know since you started to what it is now.   Sam Vokes  It's changed a lot. I think, coming through for myself as a sense forward, I came through a Ligue one club in Bournemouth at the time and play for for two, that was the only formation you knew that was what I grew up playing. Now obviously there's there's a lot more different roles and I suppose to myself as a striker, you have to learn to play different ways. It's, you see a lot of people playing with either 43433 or central striker five at the back sort of format, there's loads of different things. But I suppose coming through years ago, I didn't really know those things. And as a youth team, we weren't really coached that because for two was was the only way out there really. I think it serves a formations it's come on a lot but I suppose the speed and the fitness side of the games come on massively miles ahead of what it was and can only be good and benefit benefit the game I suppose with the coaches and sports science teams that have come in have brought the game to another level now.   Joe Partington  There's so much access that you know, people can get to football now online, young guys are playing FIFA now. So football intelligence, for me is coming on. But these young kids now are obviously being exposed to different formations, different ways of playing. How much of a challenge was it for you? When you started? Obviously, in a 442, we played that in the youth team. I don't think you'd probably be exposed to anything different to them, you know, moving on to an elite level and having to learn different roles that how specifically did you learn that what did you do? I   Sam Vokes  think that's that's probably going back to what I touched on before and being proactive and I I got my move quite early from Bournemouth from Ligue one to the championship and and a strong championship team and wolves and was was in strike for a strikers basically when we were there were competing for positions. I was probably mainly backup as an 18 year old for a member Christina Maluma. At time, it had a great career and did very well for wolves that season. And he, he was my type of striker really, I learned a lot from him there and, and he was brilliant with me and I'd ask questions and probably be quite quite interested in his career and how we come about because for one I was genuinely interested in to want to learn as well. So I think it's important that that you look up to these guys and and and take it in when you get that information.   Joe Partington  How important do you think it is? Is it for young guys now going into the game and you know, I say young guys, but I mean, a young people playing the game at professional level, to be open minded enough to want to learn to want to ask questions to want to get better, instead of feeling like they, they know everything. I   Sam Vokes  think that's very important. And it's, it's quite hard when we talked about it before, I think when when, when we were young, you come into the youth centre were busy that was a big word. And it was it was a word used to be kind of not not suck up to the manager or anything like that. But you'd see someone asking questions and suddenly they'd be busy but busy was the thing that was seen as a bad thing and joked around the change room but for me it's I suppose as I've got older is probably the worst word that can be used and used in that way in the dressing room because why not be busy Why not want to bet yourself and further your career? It's it's something that for me it can only stand you in good stead if you're asking questions to managers and coaches and and like I said before sports sciences physios because only improve you as a person as a player and, and ultimately improve your career.   Joe Partington  I mean, so let's touch on, obviously those young days of Bournemouth, it's, it's pretty unique for, you know, a 17 year old these days to be involved in a first team environment. And for us at the time, obviously, I was you know, I grew up in the same youth team. For people at home watching there was, you know, the first 10 games of your first year as youth in place got 10 goals and and then moved on into the first team. I wonder if you just can can give everybody an insight into how that happened. Really, and you know, how you felt during that period of time as a young guy?   Sam Vokes  Yeah, it was it was it was an amazing time. It all happened so quickly. I think leaving school in the summer and I think it was by the December I'd made my first team debut. So it was it was a good start to my youth team. Career and then suddenly don't get me wrong there's there's an element of luck in there. Remember, when Tuesday night the when Tuesday morning the US team manager Joe Roach called me up and said that there's been for injuries or illnesses in the first team and manager at the time Kevin bomb wants you to meet up with the squad that night and suddenly panic stations start kicking in and you think I've never really trained with them before. Probably don't even know half the last names to be honest with you, although you should do when they're the first team. And also I never had a suit. So I had to go out and buy a suit that morning. That back at it now by and it's thick. It's still baggy now. But now they're the sort of things that happened. And suddenly I was I was meeting up with the the first time that choose first team that Tuesday evening and walk in the dressing room shaken all the lads outside rather than my name was on the starting team sheet on the on the board. And we've got not forced at home in front of a packed, packed stadium. I think 12,000 there that night. So for me, I've got the Saturday plan, you've seen football to suddenly start and with these lads that don't even know and, and, yeah, well, I remember playing about 70 minutes. And we want to know and that was where it all started, really. And it was it was a great night and great experience.   Joe Partington  How important hindsight for obviously us is wonderful thing. And there was probably no way of knowing the Monday before that Tuesday that the next day you were going to be playing in first team game, you know, not in the forest at home, which was a big deal at the time. How important is it for guys now to understand that they're never too far away from actually being involved from actually having an opportunity and how important it is it to be ready at all times for that moment.   Sam Vokes  I think I think you're right there may I think it's important for us to be ready, I think with hindsight now. Don't get me wrong, I mentioned that there is an element of luck. And if those four strikers that I mentioned weren't injured in front of me, then I probably wouldn't have got that chance that night. But I think as a player and as a person, you've got to put yourself in that position that when the manager needs to make that phone call to us to manager whoever is reserved to the manager makes that call. You're the one who picks the phone up to there were other options I'm sure. But that day he called me up so I think I put myself in the right position by doing my work and doing my job and everything right at the time and probably performing well that he was I was wanting to Put the phone up to.   Joe Partington  Can you remember how you felt? You know, the moment you're just about to walk into the changing room?   Sam Vokes  Yeah, very nervous, very nervous. And, yeah, like I said, for me that night was probably meeting most of the last for the first time because although youth teams now are very much in training grounds and associated with first names for us, as you remember, we were based at the college down in brockenhurst in the Bournemouth first team where we're half an hour away training over and Bournemouth and Paul so for us, it was It wasn't like you knew these people day to day it was it was quite a distance group with a centre of excellence then so it was it was probably was meeting those guys for the first time that night. And then suddenly you start in, like I said, in a big game against top of the league team in a relegation battle. And suddenly, there's a whole different pressures that   Joe Partington  if you were about to walk into that room, and you now stood next to the front door of the change room, and had some advice to give to yourself back then, looking back now what would you say?   Sam Vokes  Quite a hard one. It's an easy word to band around. And people spoke about a bit of before and then even I've said it to young lads. Now when they come in and step in, and it's, it's literally go and enjoy it. Enjoy the experience and take it all in because it literally does fly by there. I mentioned that I've had 15 years playing now. But that has flown by in a flash. If I remember to that night, it doesn't seem that long ago, but it was it would be to enjoy it and take it all in. I accept that when those moments come across. And you're that nervous. It's quite hard to enjoy. Looking back now I think I think it did enjoy it. And it was it was good night.   Joe Partington  So how did that from that moment I've seen the game goes well, we as a youth team, were there to watch you. And you became you know, sort of brand the word RAM but like a bit of an iconic figure for us to look up to like this, you know, somebody from from our age is not playing in the first team but you know, something really for us to aspire to relate to? How did being involved in that in a first team environment? And we talked about facilities and almost not really having any, but how what did that do to your football lifestyle? Did it become serious for you at that point? I   Sam Vokes  think it did. It was probably a bit probably was used to it is that it was like I said we were based at a college. So I was going into college every day still seeing my friends from school that gone to that college. And then suddenly after that game, I was training with the first team every day. Luckily, I just passed my driving test so I could drive myself there. So that helped. But it was it was a different lifestyle for me because I was then travelling, travelling to Bournemouth, which was about 40 minutes away everyday train with the first team and not being involved in that huge team environment that always was it for me personally, probably tried to stay quite grounded in the fact that of what it's carry on my college studies working off of it was the CU boys to be honest with you in a youth team. And every Monday afternoon and Wednesday after I'd finished training, and I'd come down and still do my college work to make sure I've finished my a b technique and came out with those qualifications that that were part of the youth teams out there. And that was important for me to stay close to the youth team at the time and my mates that we grew up playing with.   Joe Partington  A lot of guys, hopefully obviously watching and listening to this will be in youth environments. And there'll be a lot of guys in first environments, listen to this. But what were the overriding differences, you know, to you from that new team environment to a first team environment. What were the differences?   Sam Vokes  Think suddenly the pressure. Don't get me wrong between at the time it was only under 18 set up there was no 20 threes or anything. So there was a element of pressure to your youth team. Because you've got to play for a career you've got to earn, earn, earn a contract at the end of it. But suddenly the pressure isn't on yourself. It's as a team and as a club. I went straight into a Ligue, one relegation battle with with Bournemouth and suddenly we've we've got to stay up and there's there's a whole different pressure to that and you're not playing in front of families and friends on a Saturday morning, you're suddenly playing in front of 510 1000 15,000 fans on a Saturday afternoon when there's was a lot riding on the game. So think those pressures slowly came in, came in really quickly to be honest, and suddenly you go from from one level to the next. And it was important to try and take that all in at the time and take it in your stride as   Joe Partington  Scott, was there any long lasting memories you have of players advice or managers advice or or you know, stuff like that when you were first exposure to football first in football environment?   Sam Vokes  I can't really remember to be honest with you. I think I think there's always there was a lot of senior lads at the time and they were they were brilliant for me. It was good to have around and got me involved in little things off the field as well really, I was I was still only 1718 and I was I was going on meals and nights out with guys that I wouldn't, wouldn't have done before really and they were probably involving me more and stuff like that because they knew that you come in from from a different setup and get involved Over the last and it was it was great to be around that and, and, and come through those sort of guys really there were a lot of senior pros that have been there for a long time and it was it was a good environment.   Joe Partington  The so that first year that you were involved, I think was, you know, the finished in Ligue one quite comfortably. The next season as you touched on was in a bit of a relegation battle. I must add that there was a 10 point deduction at that point. So I might have even been 12. So, you know, that obviously went against the club and quite a lot of us youth team guys were involved in that period of time. Did you feel a no no talking about pressure now, like I'm going to spin on you in terms of a striker and positional pressure, like as a striker for me, is, uh, you know, I'm a defender, but I still cease being a striker as being the most difficult position on the pitch. Did you feel pressure as a striker to turn up and score goals and to be the guy that was, you know, winning games?   Sam Vokes  I think about that time. And I think coming back that second season for me was probably when the pressure really started. I suppose that first season we had six months was probably a little bit. I don't want to say getting used to it, because you are chucked in the deep end, but I was probably getting used the first team football and suddenly I came back the next preseason manager give me the number nine shirt, there's a whole new pressure to that. And then, like I say, the club wasn't in a great place. At the time, I didn't really realise what was going on, I was still living at home with my parents. So during that season, you touched on there, the club went into administration minus 12 points, who suddenly got to make up 12 points in a relegation battle. And that's in the dressing room wage has been cut in half because the situation of administration so suddenly, there's a whole lot of different emotions going on, where it wasn't used to me because I was living with my parents. But suddenly you see grown men that have got mortgages to pay for it, there's a lifestyle element to it and families to look after. So it was a whole different pressure and needing to stay up in the league. I suppose that time. You start from now that you've seen lads will come through and for me, that was amazing, really, because they were they were my group of lads. There they were, as I've been playing with, so it was good to have them around it and and we had we had a strong team at the time. And unfortunately, we did end up getting relegated it was an uphill battle, I think by a point or so even though we had minus 12 deducted but it was for me on a personal note is a great season to be involved with firstly, and that   Joe Partington  pressure as a striker that I'm trying to talk about how best Did you know how did you deal with that pressure, as you know, because I refer sometimes to a defender as a bit of a funds boiler with you know, our role is to, you know, is to stop positive things happening. And your role is to obviously to create those to be almost the front creator. And that's difficult. So how did you deal with the pressure of you know, of playing that role?   Sam Vokes  I think I think the pressures do come on strikers. I think you're judged on goals. As much as the game changes, I think you do. You genuinely judged on goals. And I think around there and it was it was probably quite a lot of pressure on it. I remember a Bournemouth bought striker Joker forum, we had a good little partnership going that year. And we scored a few goals together. And it was just enjoyable to be honest with you. I think I ended up with a few goals that year in a team that got relegated and for myself it was it was quite enjoyable season. So it was my first real running first team. For me personally, it was it was probably those sorts of seasons where you get a good run in the scene that you feel your best as a striker scoring goals and playing games as what you want to do. And for me, that was one of those seasons that I look back. And I was I was I was very young, it was an enjoyable time.   Joe Partington  How are you approaching games? You know, at that point, this person that was talking about that? Was there anything that you would do before a game mentality wise or think about to help you?   Sam Vokes  I think back then I kind of just started to think about what songs I would go but I think it was it was more just just concentrating on obviously the game in front of you. But looking after yourself off the pitch, I suppose in that age group 1718 Lots of say a lot of friends are at college, about the youth team, but my general friends who grew up with we're doing a lot of things off the field party and on Friday nights that you can't be part of although you want to see your friends and be part of those things, you've got a sacrifice. And for me it was there was a bigger goal really. And that was it was professional football and I still needed to make a name for myself. So that was that was the drive really to kind of give those things up. But in terms of preparing yourself, it was it was important that you eat the right foods you eat, eat the right drink the right drinks and prepare for games. It was we didn't know a lot. We didn't probably know as much as we do now but you do have that little bit of education and it was doing those right things at the right times.   Joe Partington  I think a lot of the guys that. You know I've spoken to obviously speaking to a lot of elite footballers, yourself included, that say to deal with the pressure of obviously performing on a Saturday in a match day. If you prepare As best as you possibly can, and leave no stone unturned, sort of cut no corners, the least you can do is give yourself the best possible opportunity to perform then on a match day.   Sam Vokes  Yeah, no, I think you're bang on. There's nothing worse if you've not done the right things. And I'm not talking about superstitions or anything here but if you've not lived your life right and done the right things in the weekend, you know you're going into a big game at the weekend have not done that there's no worse feeling. And that goes back to eating and drinking. But it also goes back to stuff you do in the gym here day to day getting your body right and prepare and right on a on a Thursday, Friday for a game on a Saturday and it seems to be more and more football being played these days. So once you play one game a week or three or four games a week there's there's always things you can do right and prepare yourself in the right way.   Joe Partington  So, you know, we touched on that season obviously have been enjoyable for you must have been because, you know, you moved on to the championship side wolves in that summer and went from you know, relegation form of team to a championship side of wolves that were that the ambition was to become a Premier League team. It was it was a complete contrast in clubs. Really? Could you give us a little bit of an insight into at the age of 18, possibly the 19 at the time, about you know, what, what a move like that. It was like at the time and and what that sort of did for for you as a person?   Sam Vokes  Yeah, it was, it seems what happened really quickly, I suppose it's something of a first debut was in 18 months, I think it touched on the club have gone into administration at Bournemouth, and they've kind of told me before the season finished that I was on the move, I was going to be moving and I've ever been important by my parents and he said has a list of clubs that you pick basically because you're off in the summer. So that was that was quite a big decision to make and was was the first one we spoke to and saw and Mick McCarthy and he, he may be $4 million, went to massive training grounds. Suddenly there's this huge complex where I'd never been to anywhere like that before. And he turned around to me and said, Look, you're going to be one of four strikers in in the championship next year for me, obviously down to you to own your position, but you're gonna be one of four and you're going to make a push for the Premier League and that's what the club want to achieve. It's a massive club that suddenly no disrespect to almost but you go from Ligue one relegation battle in front of 567 1000, every week, to suddenly for the Premier League in front of 25,000. Every weekend, there was a whole new pressure to that and, and I loved it, to be totally honest with you, it was it was an amazing time and good to be part of that season. That season. For me, I made quite a few appearances. I can't remember how many, but I think it was, it was great to then be playing a whole new level of football in the championship and ended up getting promoted that year.   Joe Partington  I want to ask you a little bit more about so as a young guy, no real. Say no real commitments. I know, obviously, with your missus at the time, but no real family commitments and stuff like that. You get given a list of clubs that want to take you what sort of things that are for your mind that what sort of decisions are you are you making? And what's the thought process?   Sam Vokes  It was tough, great, I remember that says never misses my now wife at the time. And we and my parents sat down and went through them. And like I said, balls was the first one we visited. We all went up as a family and they made us feel brilliant tubs for a tour around the stadium and training centre. And then you're like, Well, yeah, I want to move to this club. And then suddenly, it's well, you are moving out your parents. So when you're moving into Wolverhampton, which is seemed like a billion miles away at the time, I got myself a flat or apartment up there and suddenly living by yourself and feet of yourself. So yeah, my girlfriend was at college still. And I moved out there by myself. So yeah, it was whole new pressure to life living by yourself and sorting that out and learning how to cook and clean and sort yourself out.   Joe Partington  It was a it was a successful season, as you said, you know, you were promoted to the Premier League made appearances, you, you know, you score goals, what was it about that environment, you know, different environment from being in a team that's trying to avoid relegation to being in a team that's trying to get promoted? What were the differences? And you know, how did you benefit off the back of that,   Sam Vokes  you know, big differences might look back now I think, the kind of team and squad that Mick McCarthy got together, he kind of got probably a lot of similar players to myself that have been successful in in the championship in Ligue one. And it was probably their biggest opportunity a club like wolves to go and prove themselves and he had a great squad and grouped together that all came together at the right time and had that drive to go and get promoted. Like I say, we ended up being champions that year in the championship and get promoted to the Premier League and for me personally 19 having this all happened so quickly. It was amazing man, I couldn't believe I was part of it really. And it was it was a great experience. But like I say, suddenly there's there's that whole new pressure that comes alongside with it and being able to adapt to that   Joe Partington  really, what sort of stuff did bit McCarthy do with you and When you were there, how did he have an you know, an impression on you?   Sam Vokes  I think the big difference me when I when I went there, and the feeling I got from McCarthy in the club at the time was was the culture that he'd really built. And that's not even talking football wise I suppose it's just getting a group together and as a group and how you work for each other and how you respect each other on the pitch and, and have that belief really when you go out on a Saturday for myself when I first went now, I think it was it was massive for me. I remember coming off the bench my first gave away at Plymouth and scored a late equaliser for the team and Me on that day, it was it was amazing to me, I just got my first championship goal but it made me feel part of it. And as a striker you touched on before what the pressures are striking to me when you move to a new club or something like that. It's getting that first goal and getting off and running. It is so important and luckily I've got that on my my walls debut and that kind of started.   Joe Partington  What was your game like it at the time then obviously it was in in that season that what we what were your strengths? What was what was the things that you you know that you thought you were adding value to the team was what what was going on on a match day that you felt successful at?   Sam Vokes  I think it was coming into a team like that. Today touched on formations before Mick McCarthy did always play with two strikers. So for me that was that's kind of where I fall home because I've always played that way. But I say I was I was kind of backup that year for Chris LUMO. And we are still running backs played at that time and myself and Andy Keogh were kind of the four strikers and I suppose my type was was crystal LUMO. And I was kind of at the start coming off on on the bench for him making those appearance chipping him and my goals here there. But for me, it was being that physical presence. And I suppose if you're not starting as many games which I've been used to at Bournemouth it was it was being that impact and coming off the bench and scoring those goals. And that for me was was an important thing when I first met was was was to get those goals and have that impact when you come off the bench and kind of make a name for yourself at that level,   Joe Partington  we are going to discuss the differences between being a substitute and you know, and starting and stuff in a little bit. But, you know, at that age and in that environment, you know, something a lot of other younger players struggle with this is you know, is trying to establish themselves in the team. Over the next few years, you know, after you've been promoted into the Premier League, you end up on six different loans, you know, pretty big clubs and and when I say pretty big clubs, I'll name them for you just so people can can understand. Leeds, Bristol City, Sheffield United Norwich, Burnley and Brighton are all, you know, massive, massive clubs, especially for a young guy to be going on loan to. I've also heard you at you know, in interviews talking about that time has been quite tough for you. What was it about that that time? That was difficult? And what sort of challenges were you faced with?   Sam Vokes  Yeah, I think I think you're right, it was a tough time, probably. Probably off the field. But when you're a young man and you can, I was I had no commitments or wasn't living with my wife at the time she was at uni and she was doing her thing. So for me, it was quite easy to check your bag and in the back of the car and drive Pisa and lift out of a car, the back of my car for two years. suitcases are in different hotels. And for me, it was easy to do that. But it was a tough time you're living in hotels, literally. You're training with the lads, which is fine. You're in the training ground probably from nine to one, two. But then for the rest of the day if you've not got friends or family near you and you are in a hotel in the middle of a different city, which you're not used to. So there were there were tough times in terms of that. For me, personally, I look back with hindsight now I think they were where I learned probably best part of my football video, I suppose. It's probably where I learned the game, probably learn about myself. Pick clubs with whole different pressures mate, they were these were Ligue one at the time I remember getting promoted. And then the rest of the championship clubs that we're all going for the promotion themselves big clubs, as you named. And they were they're all different experiences, working with different managers, different formations, different ways of playing, different rounds, different crowds and just to touch on one of the main one crazy season that I had to remember. They only did 90 day loans at the time. Remember in January, I went to Sheffield United, they were in a relegation battle at a time a massive club playing at Bramall Lane was was huge, loved it, and in a relegation battle. went there and I remember there were night day loans like I say so in March, I remember being an international cup of Wales and they rang me up and said look, we can't extend it to the end of the season looks like we're going to get relegated but I've just had a phone call from Paul Lambert in Norwich and he wants to take us to the end of the season. Looks at a table may end up at Sheffield United and looking at Norwich second in the league. It's not it's not a bad one to jump into. So like I said before, my suitcase was packed in the back of the car and I was down in Norwich, suddenly living in Sheffield for two months and down in Norwich and ended up being part of part of them being promoted. So that was that was kind of Just the highs and lows of going alone and dealing with different pressures and different clubs and   Joe Partington  everyone's like I'm just gonna check the camera is good yeah, gonna get straight back into where we left off now just be able to cut it you know sometimes you think like if I fucked this up again,   Sam Vokes  I was thinking you're coming back next week   Joe Partington  to come back to stoke once a week just to save until we can get it. Right let's continue mate. So he talks about their obviously about moving from different clubs, different atmospheres, different pressures, relegation going for promotion, how important is it, in your opinion, as a professional footballer, to be able to adapt and to be able to, you know, be comfortable being in different environments   Sam Vokes  is important that we touched on right to start the podcast man, I think there's those facilities now and people there for you, which is, which is amazing, a lot of levels. And I think it's only getting better. At the lower levels, you go down as well. So I think you've got a lot of people that are there to help you physically in the gym, coach and wise on the pitch, but also off the field as far as think that's hugely important. I didn't really probably deal with it as much myself at the time. But there's, there's the mental side of the game where that say there's a lot of downtime in football and football is do find that it's important that you don't waste that. But it's important that you deal with that and right away because the mental side of life and oppression as a football are important. When you're having that downtime, it's important to reflect on things in the right way and deal with them in the right way. Because it's tough. And it's tough dealing with those pressures, I suppose at a young age as well.   Joe Partington  You speak about that time, obviously, with hindsight, which is which is nice about how it was important for football and how you developed as a player during that period of time. What were you developing? How did you develop? What how did your game improve? What did you learn?   Sam Vokes  I think it's let's say it's easy with hindsight at the time, it was tough because it wasn't I wasn't used to it. And it's definitely different environments, different teams, different ways of playing. When I reflect on it, I could go into each team I'm not going to but I think you kind of you look at the different ways they're playing with you look at different players you're playing with you look at the journeys everyone been on and you pick up a little bit of everything from from everyone may every manager and you do learn and I think that's how you grow as a person in life mate, not just in football in different jobs, I think you have to pick things up from people. I don't know listening to podcasts watching different programmes on TV. I mean, that's that's how you learn and you grow and and make you a good person I suppose. So suppose it was picking up all little things from different people and, and football wise, I suppose playing different formations literally playing different ways of playing. Probably never played with a one up front, for example, as I did with when I went to summer clubs, and it was learning that side of it. And alongside those loans was playing international football for Wales as well, which was a whole different experience really, and, and way of playing football on the international stage as well, I suppose   Joe Partington  people's perception of a loan sometimes can be seen as for whatever reason, a negative thing. Young guys now, you know, that are asked to be in going out on loan or have, you know, have potential to go out and loan a seeing it as a as a backward step maybe or or, you know, step down. What would your advice be to people you know, who are in environments where there might not be getting a game or young players like yourself, who will try and establish yourself in the first time but might have been find it difficult? What advice would you give to those guys about what a loan can do for you, I   Sam Vokes  think it's so important. Don't get me wrong, it's got to be right in suit you as a person as a player. But I think it's so important, I think whether you agree or disagree with it with the 23 system as it is now but I think a lot of people can get kind of a false sense of security, I suppose. And being in that for a long amount of time. touched on we were just an ATM system when I came through. So maybe that was brutal if it's 18 years old, yes or no, but I think we're 23 system now I think a lot of people can get caught up in that and not get as much exposure to the pressures and, and dealings with with first team football on a match day on a day to day basis as they can and spoke to many young players coming through and would highly recommend a loan move that was right for you because there's nothing that beats playing. First in football, whatever level is. For me. I didn't look at it as a negative when I did it for me. It wasn't you're not involved. You're going on loan by the manager. It was kind of me knocking on the manager's door saying look, I don't want to be sat on the bench one week in the stand another week. In the Premier League. I'd rather be going out and playing football where I can so I was I was asking the question if I can go out on loan because that was something for me that I wanted to do and I've seen it. I've seen other people go out and probably been used to play especially football, Bournemouth as well for that. So, I mean, it was important to keep that going and get that experience. This fast forward   Joe Partington  a little bit. So 2012 you know, sort of the young, young 20s At this point you've just signed for Burnley permanently playing back in the championship, you make 46 appearances and the club finished sort of in a mid table. But in that first season that you were there, I think, you know, it's probably fair to say that, for whatever reason, Charlie Austin and Danny ings ended up having quite a nice relationship. And and, and they were seen arguably as the two players that were going to play. When Charlie then moves to QPR, the next season, a new and NZ, build a relationship, you play new on every game, and the club get promoted to the Premier League, you know, which is an incredible achievement. I want to really know and get like proper detail from you on the differences between and we've touched on it already. I said I was we were going to get into it. The differences between being a substitute and playing that role and differences between being a startup playing that role. What are the overriding differences?   Sam Vokes  Yeah, I think that is a different, it's different mindset. I think you've always got to be, you've got to be ready, I don't think you can take your foot off the gas and think, Oh, I'm on the bench on Saturday. So I'm not going to train as hard on Thursday or Friday on has already picked his team earlier in the week, you can see what we've all been in those situations where you know, you're not in the team, but there's only one way you're gonna get yourself in a team and that's doing things in the right way. On a daily basis, and and when you come on as a substitute. It's it's a tough mentality to get into, we all want to be starting games and playing regularly. But I think it is a score game score game now. And it's getting more like that. I think you see the introduction of more subs this season. More people involved on a match day. And, and it's important that you kind of go into it the right mindset, it's it is a mindset where I touch know, before when I was when I first joined, be that impact, a vote it talks about a lot whether or not substitutes are game changers. And that's quite a good mentality and good way of looking at things really, because you are that player that things aren't going right to the managers team that he's picked, you're the one that's then relied on to go and do that job for him. And why not when you step on that pitch, make that impression and get yourself in the in the running for the starting line up the following week. So football is fickle when it changes really quickly. And if you go and impress in those 1520 minutes you get and the rest of the weekend train and you can be in the managers mindset the next week. So think it's an important. It's a tough mindset, because you are dealing with failure. Most managers name that team on a Friday afternoon, Friday morning, in training and they work on the team. Don't get me wrong, there's always that disappointment. And there's always that element of I should be playing Why is he playing in front of me, but you've got to kind of get rid of that and be part of the squad because football, especially these days is a squad game and you need to have that mentality.   Joe Partington  I know that's easy, obviously to say and that's the ideal attitudes have in that position. But is that something that you were you know that you did? quite regularly? If for whatever reason you weren't in the team that What did you do in the build up so much days and and preparing on on a match day? What What was your mindset,   Sam Vokes  you have to go mate, and I think I'd like to think that I did do that. Don't get me wrong, there's probably days where you are down and you find it tough, too tough to deal with. And you make the excuses and you look for excuses. But I think as I've got a bit older, you've got a lot look to those. There's no point in doing that because you're just going to get yourself in a whirlwind in a bad headspace that you're not going to end up performing even if you get asked by the manager to come on for 1520 minutes on a Saturday and he's got to go into it preparing is you Stein got to be prepared for that even if you're on a bench I think the way you eat the way you feel the way you prepare on a Friday night it's got to be exactly the same. At the end of the day you're on the bench player in your position might come off in the first minute and you're playing the next 90 minutes so you have to prepare yourself in the right way or you're not giving yourself the best chance to perform really and do your best ability. I suppose that you touched on there when I first joined Burnley it was like that and Assam probably myself in the last year or so it's spoken in a similar sort of position and probably got a different mindset now I'm a bit older and can deal with it. I'd like to think a bit better there's still frustrations there but you you have to still get yourself in the right mindset and think it's important now as I've got older is not have that excuses mentality because just not point to be totally honest with you. You're just gonna drive yourself mad.   Joe Partington  Do you see let's touch on that a little bit more something that's really unique that that excuses mentality? How often do you see that in football?   Sam Vokes  Too much to be totally honest with you and you do see it a lot and there's always someone to blame. There's always an agent ringing you up saying, Oh no, it's not yours this or whatever trying to pump you up. But for me, it's probably some of God's took away from Shawn dice as a manager, he used that that saying have no excuses mentality. And I think it's so true because in whatever in whatever way of life may it's easy to blame somebody else and not take it on your own shoulders. But at the end of the day, where's that going to get you? I think if you go into it with if you go into a match day for example, with no excuses not trying on someone's shoulder because you think you should be starting or, or somebody calls you can only you only get to bring other people down. And that stuff in mentality as well of bringing other people down in the group is no good. So why not go into it with with a good mindset and a positive mindset that you're going to have an impact in and change the game when when you get your chance?   Joe Partington  Yeah, totally agree. So let's flip it, though. So the next season you and Danny ings, obviously career and you know, pretty incredible relationship and of winning a lot of games get promoted to the Premier League and that season. What are you going through now is that you know, as a main player, you almost probably know that you're going to play in the team most weeks, like how, what's the mindset there? How, what's the what is your football lifestyle, like at that point?   Sam Vokes  It's a weird one. Because when you're in that moment, and you're flying it and myself and I had a great relationship at that time, and we scored a lot of goals and won a lot of games. We were in a Burnley team that were dogs for relegation, I suppose at the start of the year. And we ended up being second in the league to Leicester and ended up getting promoted that year. And it was you just got a high he really I suppose you just you're just running on running on emotions for that for that whole time. And in a weird way, when you're not in a team, you're thinking everything but when when you're in a team and things are going well, it just happens. So naturally, my I wish you can put a lot that emotion in you know what it's like when things are going well for you. If you could just you could bottle that up. It'd be priceless. But I think it is all about keeping yourself right. Day in day out. I think when I think the way I've tried to live my career, I suppose is not get too high with the highs and not too low with the lows, because there are a lot and if you kind of stay on that middle ground and a bit grounded, it's it's an important place to be because it does go quite, it does go higher low. And those that season for me was some that were not really because it was probably my best year football or goals and playing games. And before games for the season ended up doing that ACL injury at home to Leicester in in a tablet table clash. That was however the highest those the lowest lows within a split second, I suppose.   Joe Partington  How unique is that attitude of you know, don't, don't get too high. Don't get too low. And I've spoken about quite a lot. But how difficult is it actually to preach that?   Sam Vokes  It's hard to do. And I suppose it's even harder now in the modern world where you've got social media, and you've got a lot of outside influences, I suppose. And a lot of outside people talking to friends getting involved in family. And it's I suppose when it's high, don't get me wrong, it's brilliant. But where is everyone when it's not so good do not mean and you like to think those people stick by you. But it's it's sometimes not that way. And I suppose, and keeping yourself grounded in on that middle middle ground and keeping the right people around you. Which is also very important, I think having the right group of friends, people you speak to agents, all that sort of outside influence around you that keep you on that middle ground is so important.   Joe Partington  So we're going to round this up a little bit of votes either. What advice would you give to people who may find themselves out the team as a substitute or the squad, whatever it is, who know they're capable of obviously playing and playing to a high level? What advice would you give to them as to how to deal with that?   Sam Vokes  It's hard to make because I suppose when you're in that you can't you can't see the next step or the next level. But I'll probably go back to when a first member debut for Bournemouth when I was that young lad I suppose it was keep doing the right things right? Day in day out and the opportunity comes about then you're there to take it and people can see it doing it. Don't Don't flip, it's not switch you can't flip it on and off. Just like that on a match day. So if you're doing things right every day, and keeping yourself in the right way. Don't get me wrong, there's that element of luck that has to come but being in the right space at the right time. It will fall your way more more times than it won't if you're doing things right.   Joe Partington  I know you've touched on it there at the end of that season. Obviously you end up with an ACL injury that keeps you out for a period of time. How difficult was it being so important to that team at the time obviously that when I can remember watching you bit promoted on the telly the guys are celebrating on the pitch now you come on the crutches with the with the knee brace on. How difficult was that period of time where you know you're involved. You're You're incredibly big part of what's happened, but you can't possibly enjoy it as much as what other people do.   Sam Vokes  It's so true man, I think is you did feel big part of it, you felt a big part of the club and what we'd achieved. But on that day when you get promoted, you're not part of it. And you've not got the kit on. And you're not. You're not part of the celebrations. Although I tried. Like I said, I was hobbling around the pitch on my crutches, a couple of weeks after surgery, which probably wasn't the ideal thing to do. But it was, you do feel part of it, but you don't you want you want to have the care on, you want to be scoring the goal on that day that you get promoted and that sort of stuff. But it was, it was it was a massive season for me. And it was a massive learning curve, like I touched on that started his podcast, with this ACL injury may and I believe it made me over those nine months, I suppose that was out injured, maybe a better person, and a stronger player on and off the pitch   Joe Partington  people. So something incredibly difficult happens to you like an ACL injury, it takes you nine months to recover. And you're now talking about it as that you managed to learn and you managed to, you know, to ultimately get yourself to another level off the back of that. Did you know that at the time? Or do you just think that looking back at it now?   Sam Vokes  I don't think you do it at the time. He talked about at Simon did somebody come myself and think I don't know why I started it. I don't know, someone might have mentioned it to me. But I started a diary. And it was something that me kept me on the right path disposed and it was literally day one. Remember, I pulled out the Arctic literally a couple of weeks ago, mate. When I was going through a few things, it was funny to look back at. I'd written down some goals and targets over this injury literally from the first word of getting back walking to the last goal was scored my first Premier League goal and I must have thrown the diarrhoea way when I did my injury because I didn't score one for a while and tick that one off. So I managed to set that off every day, which was quite nice. But I think that was an important diary for me, I look back on it. And it got me through times where I suppose there were tough it was it was it wasn't a diary as and I wrote down how I felt every day, but I kind of wrote down my my sessions and and what I had to do for that day, and we've had a day off or not. And you know, it's like mate when you're stuck in the gym, like this. And that's going out training. And I'll always remember we got through it would be any luck or the fixtures we had Chelsea and Josie Marino and all those big boys were turned up on the first game of the season. And it felt like a big part of the club that hadn't promotion and deserve to be there. But I was not part of it. And there was very much still learning how to walk basically, again, because when you're out with a with an ACL injury, it's tough to get back to those stages. And remember, the boys dine out last week of preseason, getting ready to play Chelsea at home on the Saturday and you're not part of that. And it's that's why you play football. That's why you do it to play in these games. And it wasn't part of it. So that was, that was a tough time. But I'd go back to my diary. And when you're in those tough times, you'd look and think I've not achieved much this week, it's been quite a slow week. But you might go back a week or two and see that I was only doing I don't know, three sets of three squats. But this week I was I'd actually got up to six reps or something and there were the tiny little markers that would would would help me push on to the next level. Although he felt like you weren't achieving a lot at the time because you are literally stuck in a gym doing your exercises, day in day out. And it's it's a tough way of doing it. But that was my way of dealing with it.   Joe Partington  Is that something you devise? The reason why say is that something you'd advise is because I did that with with a couple of mine like I've obviously been lucky. Now I've got metalworking both my legs, as you know. And during that period of time, I found keeping a diary, you know, helped me to almost focus on my own stuff instead of focus on how much I missed being involved with everyone else. Is that something you'd advise you know, guys going through long term injuries to do?   Sam Vokes  Yeah, 100% eventually to a few lads that have had some unfortunate injuries, recently stokin deaths. Some of that got me through like it might not be for everyone. But for me, it helped me look back and reflect on times which were with with us, but you can see the improvement and you can see those things and even literally writing on paper your goals and aims and you're able to tick them off at the time. Were important when I first did my knee it was it was not weight bearing for six weeks. And then suddenly the next goal was to get that walk in and you did that and then suddenly jogging and all these little milestones make up that time which you're off the pitch and to me from game to game. It was I think it was nearly to the day nine months. Right before I came back in at the Premier League against Liverpool on Boxing Day I did.   Joe Partington  So you've gone from from being promoted in the championship team where you know, I know that you're a formula at an elite level you were really fit at the time but the Premier League is as far as I can imagine. I've seen not from having experienced that myself. The level of fitness again is is much higher. How did you actually get yourself you know, not only fit, but fit to a level now that you were able to perform In a Premier League.   Sam Vokes  Yeah, it's funny you say that because Hindsight is another thing on that, that injury. And for me, I've done nine months and I say nine months because I kind of use that as a milestone that I came back from a day I got injured to the day, I walked back on a pitch and came on against Liverpool. But for me, looking back, although played quite a few games in the Premier League that year, I wasn't, I wasn't right. I wasn't myself. I wasn't fit. I wasn't. He wasn't right. There were a lot of issues still. And I think, although it was nine months, I probably say to the following preseason, I had that under my belt, it was a good 18 months to a felt. That's myself again and back to the player probably was the previous season in the championship. So that was a big chunk a big chunk of my time that was dedicated, I suppose to get my body right and get money, right?   Joe Partington  So can you give us an insight into the sort of stuff that you're having to do to you know, because then I can imagine, just, as you've said, they're touched on in your diary, you know, different gym exercises, squats, and mobility and that sort of stuff. But when you were able to get back on the pitch, what were you doing that what did a normal sort of day look like? For, you know, a sandbox trying to get back to a level to play in the Premier League? What did that look like?   Sam Vokes  Yeah, well, like I say, you've got the structure around you. And you have the physios and the support staff and the sports science, so so they build sessions for you to get you up to a level where they think you can go and play. But for me, I say nine months, probably at six, seven, I was probably ready in myself to play a game. They structured it really well. So I remember looking back now and it was frustrating because you feel like you're playing a game and you're ready to go and get used to the first team. But you're nowhere near that point yet. Because for me, I play reserve football. So it was literally ticking boxes may remember had to take off. Five minutes had to take off 60 minutes, another 60 minutes. 75 kind of as preseason goes now. But you're building up to that 90 minutes. And it was probably a good five or six reserve games before we got to that 90 minute mark were probably declared myself fit at that point. And ready back training with the first team you dripped in and out of first team training to manage yourself and manage your knee and, and your body. But it probably took me up to that 90 minute mark to say Yeah, right. I'm ready to go. I'm ready to be involved. Now with the first thing.   Joe Partington  When you say 18 months before you, you know, you felt you got back to the place where you're at the year before the championship, where you've talked about, you know, playing your best stuff. Were you aware from say, the nine month period where you come on at Liverpool to that 18 month period? Were you aware? Or did you feel like you weren't yourself? Or did you just you know, I felt normal. But then after 18 months, you look back on that period of time and felt actually now wasn't really   Sam Vokes  think as I think it's funny, because in the moment, I think you do feel like you're right. I can only probably say this with hindsight. Don't get me wrong in that time. I remember starting massive games man. I remember playing in big games against big opposition and superstars of the Premier League in that time. But I felt like I was ready and right. But I probably wasn't. And I say that because suppose fitness levels weren't right. And I probably didn't need a good preseason on the barbell. We talked about the pressures beforehand. And I probably came back fit into a team that was fighting relegation in the Premier League at the time. So you're desperate to get back involved desperate to be there. There's nine months worth of frustration behind me of wanting to play and get back into the fold all those emotions with with probably telling myself I'm right and ready to go, I'm not going to knock on the manager's door say now I don't think I should be playing tomorrow do not mean so it's it's those sorts of things that you don't look back until probably that summer reflected and now a good preseason under my belt. And we did get relegated in the end. And we ended up having another great championship that year. And for myself, it was it was an important season for me to get back playing regular football.   Joe Partington  The just mentioned it there. And I want to get into this a little bit more about the pressures of you know of your position and a monitor, get back fit and contribute to positive results for the team. But so plain as a striker for people who don't know and play different positions, can you tell us a little bit about the responsibilities and pressure that you're under in that position? I   Sam Vokes  think it's I think it's changed probably as the games gone on a bit more now. The games evolved into different ways of paying different structures don't get me wrong when when you're talking about strikers, you're always going to be judged on your goals and your assists and how you and how you going forward really and how the team are playing I think more and more these days I think seeing teams play with one central striker and there's even a lot of teams that play with a false nine now so the strikers role has changed and adapted over the years that that is offensive mindset to it where you have to be really aware and you have to do your job for the team. A lot strikers out there that do that job. Fantastic and can contribute to a team and I think it's our different managers playing in different formations. But I suppose the end of the day you are judged on your goals and your goal scoring goals and positions and what you bring to the team in terms of that.   Joe Partington  I mean, your career speaks for itself made in terms of the success he you know, you've always been somebody that that as you've seen guys playing with you that we've looked up to, but I know you've had periods of you know, scoring loads of goals as we touched on in that Burnley season for example, and and periods where you might not have been scoring that many goals. What's the difference between the two mentally and with your approach approach to a match day? And do they differ?   Sam Vokes  Yeah, they do a touchdown there when I was scoring a lot of goals a Bernie in those championship seasons that things kind of just hit you make, they just go in off you and that luck comes, that luck comes with it. And don't get me wrong, you got to be in the right place at the right time. But those things just seem to happen when you when you're in that form. And like I said before, if you could bottle that moment up me it would be priceless. Because that feeling is is amazing. And it feels like every time you step on the pitch, you're going to score a goal. But I say I have another strikers would have experienced the flip side of that where everything you try, you're almost trying too hard. And nothing seems to go your way nothing seems to drop to you in the box and everyone around you seems to get any chances of scoring goals and it just doesn't fall to you. But they are that the ups and downs of football and ups and downs definitely as a striker.   Joe Partington  So how can guys play and obviously as a striker listening to this, going through maybe a period of time without scoring and a feeling that pressure, what can they do to deal with that, I   Sam Vokes  think it's important not to get frustrated. And that's an easy, easy thing to say, because I've been very frustrated in my career at times TouchNet before about doing the work day in and day out. And as a striker when you when you break it down to be in on the pitch, base position specific work is important. When you finish and work in your your positional work is important. But if you're doing that when you're scoring goals as well, and you're happy, it's important that you keep doing that when you're not as well. I'm going to say not to not to change the mentality when things aren't working, don't suddenly just think, oh, I need to go and do 100 more shots. I'd be out there for stupid amounts of time because things aren't going your way. If you do the same things, when things are going your way and they're not going your way, then ultimately it will turn around and go in your favour.   Joe Partington  Right. So let's get into it. You know, you've mentioned it a couple of times about your international career and stuff, but I wanted to, you know, to give it its own period of in this podcast because you know, deserves a lot of credit. You know, like me, I mean, if much more successful than I was but you know, you represented Wales. Off the back of you know, being related. Someone who was from Wales is often spoken about, you know, when Home Nations except someone who's English born into their national team, that it's, you know, that how can they really relate to playing for that country, but it's something that I think obviously, in your career that you've you've done incredibly well. When Brian Flynn called you up to the under 20 ones in 2007. What was really how did you, you know, how did you approach that and how did you, you know, how did you buy into Wales as a nation.   Sam Vokes  It was amazing man. I couldn't believe it. Going back to when I first started playing at Bournemouth and it all happened so quickly. Him to approach me obviously I was where my granddad was Welsh from my side of the family. We're from north Wales. And it was it was something I've never really looked into myself and and a lot of credit goes into Brian Flynn for that, like you say he came to a lot of us and a lot of lads that are still playing now and going to the Euros this summer that were brought in from from outside youth teams from outside of Wales really, it was something that hadn't really been done in the past most youth setups have been come out Swansea and Cardiff and Wrexham and now suddenly, Dr. Lim was was going away from that and looking for people like myself and yourself. Grandparents or families from Wales. And for me when when he first had that conversation it was it was amazing album is really something I never thought about. And there was no other no other answer than yes and couldn't wait to get there and 17 years old going to play for under 21 set up in international football, suddenly Travelling to all these places around the world playing   Joe Partington  football was what was international football like, compared to club football. What the difference is,   Sam Vokes  I think under 21 level it was it was it was it was quite similar. But don't get me wrong. It's different because you're coming from your own individual teams and ways of playing and we were still part of a young group that we're learning, hungry to go and play really. There was a suppose an unsuccessful first team in Wales at the time under John Toshack and there was a there was a route there that we could see and, and Dr. Flynn probably emphasise that to us as a group and individuals that there was that route there and that path you could see sets breaking into the first team international football with Wale wasn't John Toshack, I suppose at a time was was was willing to give young players that chance as well?   Joe Partington  Was there anything from those experiences that was, you know, internationally, not just 20 ones. But obviously when you are exposed to the first team that you managed to take away? Was there any, you know, exposure to other players exposure to other managers information they were given that managed to develop your game to take that to your club?   Sam Vokes  think there is I think there's so many things you can say, you know, I think like I said before, taking little bits from here and there, you kind of just learn and it's all part of the journey. But suddenly, you're playing with whales that are under 21 level and first team level against superstars of the game. But I made my debut against Iceland in front of a couple of 1000 away in Reykjavik. And then a week later, I made a second game against Holland, who were going to a major tournament in front of 60,000 in, in Rotterdam, and for me, that was like, Well, I'm playing against superstars of the game did I mean at such a young age and for me, those experiences that that I'll always be thankful for Brian Flynn and Tosh that given me the chance is at that level to, to experience and, and be part of an international squad that was it was on the rise really, as well.   Joe Partington  My perception of what how you say, obviously, to take bits from different people. And it's something you've spoken about being a young guy wolves taken things from, you know, from strikers that you were sort of almost competing against for playing with, and does growing up, you know, I'm gonna speak from my own perspective. You know, David Beckham was a guy that I looked up to, but as soon as you get into a first in football environment, you almost stop looking up to the superstars and start looking up to the people around you. And when you say I'm taking bits from different people around me, is that what you mean that, you know, for a period of time, obviously, probably idolise someone growing up, as most young guys do. But then when you are exposed to other first team players, then you start to take information from them. And that's how you develop. Yeah,   Sam Vokes  I think, like I say, we've all got these superstars that we grew up watching and believing we could be them, we have the names on the back of the shirts. And there's always that aspiration to be those to have those people. And it's important to have that. But I think when you do get to an elite level, on a first team level, you're playing alongside lads that have been on their own journey and got their own wave of playing. And it's important to pick things up from them, and suddenly you're working with them day in and day out. So it's a different kind of bows look a different way of looking up to a person in the fact that you're playing with them, and you're almost vying for their position as well. So there's that element of competition in it as well. And I suppose it's natural to have that but I think it's important that you'll learn and grow together because at the end of the day, you're part of a team and it's important that you will champion with your, your bit.   Joe Partington  So what did you learn from from being around these, you know, the top elite Welsh guys and, and who did you learn the most.   Sam Vokes  But it's funny, really, because we, we went into a probably an unsuccessful Wales team at the time that were that were ranked in, in the hundreds maybe it was, it was it was a part of, of world football, which wasn't very successful. And a quite a big group of us at that time. Eight 910 Lads, like say that still playing now. And therefore a lot of our journey throughout throughout my Wales career kind of broke into the team around the same sort of season or so. And it was, it was quite a big transition. So there were there were different things going on in the dressing room, obviously, I suppose the lads that were there before we think these lads coming in, and we were taking their places. So there's a bit of bit of competition in that as well and a bit of rivalry. But the the group we had kind of stuck together for a long time. And it was great to be part of and you kind of learn and pick things up along the way. But you'll go back to your own clubs and I suppose that's it's also a key part of my career really because I had to get 12 years at international level with a similar group of lads and, and you're playing different ways that you close but you come together for that weekend and you play together and after work out. Please   Joe Partington  tell me a little bit more about that mindset that you go through where you're a young guy, you're you know, you're having a successful moment with your club. But ultimately you're going into an environment where you're taking an older players position there's going to be a lot of young guys you know, listening to this or in UTM environments that ultimately has to take someone's place to get in the team. How do you best approach doing that and and how can you best manage that situation obviously because the person position you're going to take is isn't going to be happy by   Sam Vokes  no cause and it's it's a funny one wave so I suppose I've added on the flip side now with Wales as well because I've come out of the fall desperate for a little bit I hope to get back clever was one day is always been a great, great thing for me playing for Wales. But suppose there's now been a new crop of lads over the last two or three years that Ryan Giggs has bought through and suppose broken into the team and we were those guys 10 years ago did that mean so it's it's important that when you come in into that, I suppose. Think about taking someone else's place I just wanted to break into Have a team and you don't think about the emotions that go along with it. But it's hard to say how you go about it really, because you just go in and you train and you let the manager make his own decisions, really. But I suppose you can only train to 100% of your, your capabilities, and hopefully the manager will pick you and that natural progression happens where you come in and take some more space. Yeah.   Joe Partington  So for 10 years, not only were you part of a successful sales team, obviously, we'll get into that a little bit more now. But you are and you know, it discussed this and say on the podcast, so everybody knows, you've scored the most goals for Wales more than any other player born outside the country. That is, you know, an incredible achievement. What? How does that make you feel? Really?   Sam Vokes  Yes, great. It's great, man. It's a bad start, obviously, because you're not evil, we'll look at it as you're not born in that country or ever. But for me, I totally embrace where I was in the culture and what it means to play for Wales. So for me, that's, that's an important one. And this is a great feeling to have been part of a fantastic Welsh team and Welsh squad and to have chipped in with my goals along the way were which were important at times, and it's it's nice to have that behind me.   Joe Partington  What do you think it was about international football during that period of time that allowed you to score so many goals that why did you think you were so successful? Um,   Sam Vokes  a lot of things might we had, we had a great team coming through, we had, we had the superstars of Garth, our and Ramsey and Joe Allen. And we also had a lot of a lot of lads that turned up every week and wanted to play for Wales, which probably hadn't happened in the past. He has stories about Previous squads and previous players that are thrown in injuries or not wanting to turn up because there was some fixtures or whatever. And, for us, I think, as a group, we we always wanted to be part of it and be part of something big for Wales. And luckily, we managed to achieve that in euros in 2016 being part of that and part of that with a good group of people as well, not just good footballers, good group of people it was it was important that we had that and I think that's what got us so far. What   Joe Partington  was the detail then on that 2016 euros what was the detail in in the scored at the time now? Why do you think your your Welsh team and during that tournament was allowed to be so successful?   Sam Vokes  I think going into that tournament for us, it was it was a new thing. We country had not been to a competition for 50 odd years, I think it was so for us going there, there was such a buzz around the country buzz around the squad buzzer on a team that was almost no expectation of how far we're gonna get, we're just going to turn off and we're going to enjoy it. Don't get me wrong within Campion, within the team. We were very professional in how we went about it and how we we did pretty much analysis and all the work going into it. But ultimately, for us, it was it was a new experience. And when we just wanted to embrace them and joy. And that first first couple of group games for us, it was it was amazing, brilliant. And we ended up going on on a great run to the semi finals.   Joe Partington  What did that tournament do for you specifically as a player? What what did you take from that period of time?   Sam Vokes  It's funny really mate because I touched on the group stages. And I was on the bench for the first game didn't come on against the vacuum. We played England in the second game. We went one nil up. So I was looking on the bench for that and ended up losing the last kick of the game was suddenly pancakes aboard euros, and it was we just lost to England. And we were playing a massive nation in Russia next, which were a great team. And suddenly, if we didn't win that we were on the plane back home. And it all happened so quickly. And I haven't kicked a ball yet. So for me it was it was a matter of Vila Valiant. I remember the day before we played Russia in the final group game. It's common manager pulled me and said, Look, you started against Russia. That's when the nerves start kicking in and everything but I was so excited and wanted to be part of it. And for me, not just me personally. But as a team, I think that Russia game we went on a beat them three now in such a high pressure game, and probably the most enjoyable and best game I've seen, I've seen play in in many years. And that was that was fantastic to be part of. And almost the nice way to take off, I've got my parents in there as well,   Joe Partington  with such a high pressured game. So let's let's take you know, you will have played him in your whole career. And guys playing this, you know, listen to this will be playing in games like that, maybe not the same level, but games that they perceive as being high pressure, you know, if you don't win this game, you're going home. So you know, there's, there's no, you know, there's no more pressure on a game than that. How do you approach that as a player do try and approach it the same as any other game or you know, there must be a difference. Yeah, there   Sam Vokes  is a difference and I think it probably was the emotion of the team at the time. I think. We knew that there was a lot riding on it and it was managed well by the manager. We just lost to England in a high pressure game it was built up as the great British Thai. Going into the group, it was the only one everyone was talking about. Suddenly, we were going for me. And one day after that, and leading the group to we lost the game of the last kick of the game to one and we will go and home. And I think the manager dealt with it really well. We had a game four days later, and we were meant to train the following day. But he said no, like, we got back to our base camp and gave us the day off and we walked into town. And we were we went and had ice creams that sat down and chilled out with each other and had a coffee and actually sat down and suppose didn't think about football for a day, which was quite nice, because they've been so much pressure on everything beforehand. The manager actually just the stress they've run and it was it was quite a relaxed time and we went in that Russia game probably will be relaxed and a lot less pressured. And we probably the outside was perceived we had because suppose everyone thought it was Do or Die game and probably a lot more chilled out than most people would leave us at that time.   Joe Partington  So on the Friday morning, obviously it was maybe not the Friday morning but the day before the game, you know, you're told you're starting the team next night. You obviously understand how much of a high pressure game that is you're just about obviously to make your debut in euros, which is an incredibly big deal. How did you how did you approach that? That you know that periods from Friday or I say Friday but from the morning to the game day? What did you do?   Sam Vokes  Yes, it's funny makes I think I was myself come off back have a good season. We got promoted with Burnley that year. And it was it was a great season. So I believed in myself totally I think it was just the fact of stepping into playing for your country at that stage which I've never represented now. So the nervousness came from that really think the way we kind of set up them with Wales It was either myself or or how Robeson County that was one of the strikers that played at a time dependent on the opposition. So we work on Russia in two big centre asked at the time. So I was obviously I play them stretch the centre house and kind of let their own Ramsey in behind me have that kind of free roll, I suppose in the number 10. And it worked a treat because they both scored that day. And we ended up winning three nails. So I think a lot of work that went on off the field and preparation set us up to play in the perfect game that night, really.   Joe Partington  So now that your career is is you know, both won now. So it's, you know, we've not got much longer left, I'm sure. I'm sure we do have long left, but not not too much longer, mate. But what is the difference between sandbox the 17 year old and sandbox, the 31 year old that's you know, made over 500 appearances what the main differences between the two do you think,   Sam Vokes  um, I think I've still got a few games left in the legs may anyway. But it's, it's a big difference, I suppose I suppose as we touched in hindsight before and you do pick up a lot and you learn a lot along the journey. It's good to look back on things I don't try and reflect too much until probably that day I stopped kicking the ball and you realise kind of achieved over your career and you look back but don't look back too much now because it's important to keep go forward and look forward to the next step really in the next challenge. And now I look forward to my next challenge. I don't know what that is or where that is, I think it's, it's, it's a part of our careers now. To enjoy it and still have that challenge and those challenges going forward. Because sometimes you can look back and it's easy to take your foot off the gas, but me I'm excited for the next few seasons coming up and want to get back playing and scoring goals really. What would I say to a 17 year old self. It's quite hard. It's attached on that easy throwaway word of enjoy it but I'd like to think a look back and I have enjoyed what I've done so far.   Joe Partington  What I'm interested in that I've picked up habits in your career, like do you have a routine now? Is there things that you need to do to get the best of yourself? Do you have those, you have any of those? You know,   Sam Vokes  it's funny man, I probably had a lot more when I was younger and superstitions and which boot I put on first or when I put my shirt on probably a lot more when I was younger and probably got rid of them or maybe because I realised that they were no good for you because you suddenly stepped on a pitch and you think our tie this lace up first and before this, and then it starts going on in your head mate. That means so those little things were listening to a song before when I didn't listen to that song. And that means I'm not going to school today or some somewhere like that. So for me, those little habits and superstitions is do you have them naturally you try and phase them out I suppose and I don't really have any more any more to be totally honest with you. So it's I suppose the best of it is just to do things in the right way and pay yourself in the right   Joe Partington  way. And I put you on the spot just to finish us off mate but 17 year olds and just your 17 year old as as a you know a young a young guy trying to get into professional football now. What do you think the main attributes are won't put a number on him but what do you think the main attributes are that they need to you know, to be doing to have a successful career in football?   Sam Vokes  It's funny matrix You talk about in football attributes, and probably most of the ones that say would not be, would not be technical, don't get me wrong, you've got to be at a certain technical level to play professional football, the main attributes would probably be the mentality and the drive and the will to want to succeed really. We all know the stats that come out of the amount of players that fall at the wayside and don't actually make it and it's, it's those ones that you've got to put yourself in, in the right position to to get that opportunity, social performance element a lot, but you have to be the one that that gets that phone call. And in terms of attributes, I suppose it is is having that drives that mentality in that in that wants to do well, and we   Joe Partington  appreciate those of you thank you very much for that. Enjoyed that conversation made much more than the first. Thank you very much. Guys, thank you so much for listening. I hope you enjoyed that episode with Sam Vokes as much as I did, and have some lessons and takeaways to put into your game and try training tomorrow. Remember to subscribe, like and review the show via your podcast channel and press the bell button so you never miss a release. If you're watching us on YouTube. Head to the IE perform website for even more football specific information and subscribe to our mailing list to get all the best actionable advice straight to your inbox for free. I'm Joe Partington. See you soon