Show Transcript
Episode 9 – Tom Lockyer – Responsibilities in Football

Tom Lockyer  It's the everyday thing for me. Responsibility is, you know, yes, it's doing your job on a Saturday. I think that's a given. But for me, it's the it's the things that go on behind the scenes that everyone doesn't see. It's the professionalism away from football is living your life, right? It's not, it's not never having a beer, it's having a beer at the right time.   Joe Partington  Welcome to leave no doubt, a podcast brought to you by uniform that explores all areas formance within football, from the biggest lessons from the best players in the game, to diving into nutrition, strength and conditioning and psychology with elite practitioners. We are here to help you maximise your potential improve your game and leave nothing to chance in your football performance. Welcome to leave no doubt, Tom locker. Thank you for joining me everything right?   Tom Lockyer  Yep. Brilliant. Thank you,   Joe Partington  are you very well may appreciate you being here with me. To get into it straightaway, mate. You've experienced more at 26 The most footballers do in their whole careers, you will make Captain a Bristol Rovers, the age of 21. And you've played a really important role in everything that you've been a part of. So to get us going, how does responsibility link into modern day football for you?   Tom Lockyer  For me, it was it was a weird one actually. Because it was it was kind of just thrown upon me. wasn't really expecting it in the way it came about. Obviously, I was captain of the Bristol Rovers you team. But going from that to a first team role is something quite different. Because the youth team that you can, like everyone's on a level PA is there's no egos you got to deal with, you're not you're not trying to dictate to older men and new. Everyone wants the best for the team. And is a lot less to deal with. So it's kind of just like being being captain back then it's just kind of like putting the armband on 300 jeans on Saturday and getting on with it. And then go from that to like a first team. It's just changed completely. It was kind of like, you like what I said, then you've got so much more to deal with an eye obviously being 21 at the time, and you're having boys in a change rooms or 30. Plus, you're thinking he's got so much more experience from the me what the hell am I doing with this? And this kind of stuff you just have to grow into and just try and learn on the job because there's no manual to it. No one tells you what you've got to do or how to do it. So yeah, it's a little bit weird, but it's something I've relished in the end actually, Bruni really enjoyed it being part while being captain of Bristol Rovers, for 334 years, whatever it was, something they'll live with me forever is a massive honour for me. So it changed me not only as a footballer, but as a person as well. You know, there's a lot more things going on off the pitch. Then a lot of fans and people on the outside would see especially at a club like Bristol Rovers, where there's a lot of well, when I was at charter and there was a lot more people to do certain things like player liaison officers and ticket people and on all these sorts of things and psychologists and you know, there's there's a person for everything, whereas, you know, Bristol Rovers, there wasn't that. And then a lot of it always seemed to like fill it down on her onto my shoulders.   Joe Partington  So the word responsibility, football specific. What does that look like? And what does that mean to you?   Tom Lockyer  It's the everyday thing for me. Responsibility is, you know, yes, it's doing your job on a Saturday. I think that's a given. But for me, it's the it's the things that go on behind the scenes that everyone doesn't see. It's the professionalism away from football. It's living your life, right? It's not it's not never having a beer is having a beer at the right time. You know, not on a Thursday before Saturday games, you know, things like that. Spell eating right is living your life for I always from football, it's doing everything you can to be the best you can be. And I think if you do that, you will then end up doing your job on a Saturday better than if you didn't. I know a lot of people who, um, you're probably the same you've been in football a long time is there's loads of people with great technical ability, and you think, wow, you're some player. And for whatever reason, it doesn't happen. And you you ask us after look at that responsibility off off the pitch away from the pitch, I feel is a lot a lot where then people fall away. For me,   Joe Partington  there's a responsibility apply. Do you think to a lot of players who necessarily aren't the captain? Responsibility applies to everybody?   Tom Lockyer  I think, yeah, responsibility you it's almost, it's almost a given for me. The way I've been brought up, it's just a given that, you know, on, on the footballer, so I'm gonna do everything in my power to be the best footballer I can be. You know, I may not be the best technically gifted, I may not be the best this, I may not be the best that but I'm going to be the best I can be. And, yeah, that is part of the responsibility that I not even owe it to my family. I feel like I owe it to myself to do that. And that's something I've just always had within me. And yeah, I think a lot of people do take football for granted. You know, you know, when you get in the football scene, and it's kinda like, football, and I've made it because I always remember going back when I played my first game for Bristol Rovers, and never was measured me like, well done. Fantastic. This is This is so amazing. And I'm thinking I've done nothing. I've done absolutely nothing. I came on for 20 minutes in a game that we were three nil up in. I've done absolutely nothing. I need to kick on from it. And then that's when it just made me hungrier and hungrier and then, you know, there's times like when I would go back, obviously, when we were at Bristol Rovers, Darrell Clarke give us Christmas Day often he and I used to go home and my family was having Sunday dinner, and I used to make my mom cook me, chicken and pasta. I was like, No, I gotta get in tomorrow. I know. Yeah, I know. Last, that's how far I was willing to take it.   Joe Partington  So give us an insight of you just mentioned Darryl, Clark's name there, the manager who made you captain at 21. Give us an insight into what that conversation looked like. And what did you think the conversation was going to be about as he as he pulled you?   Tom Lockyer  So the season before, he pulled me to one side and just said, look, you've been fantastic for me, you've been doing amazing. There's certain things that need to happen in this club, if we're going to take it forward. But next year, you're going to be my captain is kinda like Yeah, yeah, good. And he's like, no, like, you're going to be my captain. Next year, there's going to be some changes. I'm going to need you going forward, to step up, and you know, nothing special. Just keep doing what you're doing because you lead by example. So keep doing what you're doing, but you're gonna step up and be my captain next year. So I went from thinking like, he's like, he's having me on it. Because, you know, he's like, he's a bit of a windup funny. And then when he was actually serious, I was like, wow, that is amazing. But then until it actually happens, you know, that's like that. Conversation is gone. And I'm just waiting, and then just taking each game as it comes until until it actually happened. And then, and then that's a different ballgame. And   Joe Partington  so you were told at the end of one season, obviously that that was going to happen during that offseason, that period of time in between both did that play on your mind? How often did you think this you know this this role is going to come to me when I come back? Did you add pressure did you feel nervous with did you have anxiety? How was that time?   Tom Lockyer  No, it was it was kind of? I didn't really believe it, Jeremy so I was just thinking, you will change his mind or you'll bring someone else in or he'll sign in experience player who's been there done it at your army. So yeah, in my head, I was just thinking, like, maybe I'll be vice captain. Maybe I'll be vice captain. He said I'll be captain maybe I'm the vice captain. But ya know, to be fair to me that he was true to his word. So yeah, I wasn't I wasn't expecting anything. I honestly didn't think it was gonna happen. But like I said earlier, it was is a massive honour when when it did   Joe Partington  when he described to you your attributes as to why he was going to give you that role. How did that make you feel when he was describing, you know, all these positive things about you that were, you know, that had that leadership qualities? The   Tom Lockyer  Dow was brilliant II it wasn't just then when when he used to make me feel good and confident he was, it was the best manager I've ever worked with. I've got so much time for him for what he's done for me and my career. And yeah used to make you feel on top of the world. He wanted to make me run through walls for him. So, yeah, he was always telling me how good I was and how far I could go and whatnot. So yeah, it was it was no different, really. But yeah, it's always nice to hear and and he was definitely one of them. Who can who can make you feel special?   Joe Partington  What do you think it was then about you specifically at that age 21. You've already mentioned that he talks about the lead by example. What exactly were you doing that made people think that about you?   Tom Lockyer  And so I don't know really is one of them. Obviously, I knew the club inside out because I'd come from the youth team. And ever from a young age, I was I was drilled on working hard, don't be outworked by other people. You know, if I'm in a youth team, and there's two Senator half saying it'd be at work by the other senator, if I'm going to be better than him, I'm going to do more than him. I'm going to show the manager that I'm going to stay behind and work on my left foot passing or I'm going to do this. So stay beyond do my extras. I live in my life, right, like I said earlier. And I'm sure Ellis will mind me saying this. But the analysis started like living together. There'll be times on like, Tuesday nights or whatever, when he'd be out for a beer. And I would stay in and be like, Oh, come on, man. Like, you don't want to go out tonight. Come on, we got training Thursday or whatever. And sometimes he did stay and to be fair to him sometimes he didn't. But I was just trying to trying to get across to him. Like look, this is the way I'm gonna go about it. If you want to do that, that's fine. I'm going to try and obviously help you like, like stuff you you know, be a little bit a little bit of like a like a mother figure to him. But yeah, just just little things like that. I just think like living living your life right off the pitch was was massive. And obviously in training, you could see that I always left everything out on the field. There was times when he had to like come and drag me in off the field after training and say look, we got we got a game. I know there was there was one time where I stayed behind which deviates after training and and we were working on I can't remember what we're working on. But we were just working on something that was picking his brains because obviously it was a fantastic centre off in his day. And and I went over my ankle, and I was down for a little bit and I was in a bit of agony. I was thinking this is this isn't right. I look up I just see you at his face and he was shitting himself and I was just thinking what's wrong me he's like you're right you're right. I'm like yeah, what are your gaffer Oh, kill me gaffer curIs like get yourself in now. So yeah, now is brilliant times   Joe Partington  of Bristol row is fantastic. You've already touched on as well at the very start that there were probably more qualified players in that team that would have you know, been made captain a more obvious choice. What do you think it was, you know about you that was able to step into that roll around guys with more experience with played more games, who probably had more experience leading and had also been kept isn't, you know, in their past? What do you think it was about you that was able to deal with that period quite well.   Tom Lockyer  I'm not really sure to be honest. I just think I was so determined on making it and making a success of any anything I put my hat into that I was willing to adapt. I was willing to learn I was willing to do anything I could. And that's not to say I would have been better than if he gave the captaincy to someone else they wouldn't they wouldn't be better late. They could have been they might have been but I was willing to do whatever I could to make myself the best captain I could be. And wherever wherever that was a good captain or whatever. It wasn't. That was the best captain I could have been. So yeah, I'm just I'm just the work I always have been always will be. And no one's gonna outwork me for something that I want to achieve.   Joe Partington  So the captain see role in a lot of clubs. Some people want it and some people don't some people quite vocal about that. They'd like to play that role. Some people are not bothered. Was it something that you wanted? You know, you have those leadership qualities quite obviously. up when Terrell Clark told me you were going to play that role, was it something that you thought Yeah, I really want to do that, or Would you have preferred not to have it?   Tom Lockyer  At the time, it was yes, that's amazing. It was because all I knew from captaincy was the under eighteens Captain where you put the armband on, you know, you you wear the armband out and everything's everything's groovy. I didn't realise what everything else that came with it at the time. And looking back on it now, if I knew everything else that came with it, I probably wouldn't have been so excited for it.   Joe Partington  Give people an insight then in as the, you know, what are the roles of a of a, it was National League at the time league to lead to Ligue one. What are the responsibilities of a link to Bristol Rovers captain   Tom Lockyer  is, is like what I touched on earlier, was when I was a child, and there was, there was a person for everything really. I remember I had I used to get phone calls, not not often, but like, this is just an example, I had a phone call about midnight on one, one weekday, just the problem someone had. And if I know for a fact that if that happened at 80% of other clubs, I wouldn't have been that port of call, John mean, because it was quite a serious matter. And then I'm there at 21 thinking, yeah, what do I do here? Jump mean, is something that I'm just like, Wow, I've never had to deal with anything like this before. Like, I'm just I'm winging it kind of thing. So it's like little things like that, that popped up on you. And you're thinking, oh, like, people are actually coming to me for for things and help and trust me to do this and that. But yeah, like I said, as it like, I didn't know it was gonna happen. And as it does happen is a bit of a shock. Like, wow, like, what, what am I doing here? I qualified for this. But like, obviously, you learn on the job, don't you? And then it gets easier. Yeah, no, I don't I don't regret it. But I certainly wouldn't have been as excited if, if I knew everything that came with it.   Joe Partington  So how do you think your teammates would have described you then? And what would they have said the reasons that you were given that role would be?   Tom Lockyer  I'm not sure to be honest. I do. I do think looking back on it. I was because the way I was, I think, I think I was almost guaranteed to play every game, if when Darrell Clarke was the manager. So I was going to be a mainstay in that team. Then obviously, being sent off being being in the spine of the team obviously helps as well. And then obviously, all the qualities that he he liked in his players and as a leader he saw in me, so that is probably probably what he was thinking. As for the boys not clue.   Joe Partington  I suppose the manse Lee Mansell recently was probably the most obvious choice for that role at the time. You know, he had a great career. And by that point, I'd experienced loads of promotions, a lot of different clubs and made loads of appearances. He said, When I first met locks, you could see here the characteristics to be a good leader. He had fantastic training standards. He was vocal when he needed to be and lead by example in the way he played. He has always consistent and consistency in a leader his key he had come through the academy system was highly thought of not just by the senior pros, but by all the members of staff too. How does hearing that make you feel?   Tom Lockyer  It's really nice actually. Especially from someone like Lou Mansell, so yeah, no, I had no idea it say something like that. So it's fantastic to   Joe Partington  see what changed in your football life. Straightaway after you've been given the camps captaincy. So how I know you've described already as a young guy, that your whole life really revolved around being successful at football. We didn't want to get outworked. You lived your life as you thought was the most appropriate way to live as a professional footballer. You say that and train and do an extras? How did your football life change? When you became captain? Was there anything that you weren't doing that you started to do? Was there anything that you were doing that you stopped doing?   Tom Lockyer   Now? I think for me, the only conscious thing I done was try to try to talk more in the changing room. In a football sense, like when we come in at halftime before a game after a game. That was the only thing that I consciously tried to do more of and when it first happened. I almost thought I'm talking for the sake of it just because I've been made captain and I had a conversation with I think it was Mark McChrystal, or Steve melden. Hall at the time. And, and I said, like, what do you think? Because I think I'm just speaking out for the sake of it. And they were like, Listen, you say the right things, you just, sometimes you just talk, you are talking for the sake of it. So just just relax. And just believe in what you say. And don't, don't speak just because you feel like you have to speak speak when you when you want to say something productive. And, and that is something that I took on   Joe Partington  that process. So we're getting an insight now, obviously, into a changing room. And for people listening home and watching this who either play or want to get an insight into what playing looks like that period before a game in between a game after a game, that people are speaking up in the changing room giving people information. What does that process look like? And for you, obviously, when you said you felt like you were just talking for the sake of it? How conscious were you of I want to say something? And how difficult was it for you to be brave enough to say it? And to decide what you were going to say?   Tom Lockyer  Yeah, so it's a bit of a weird one, actually. So before I was captain, I was probably more confident to go and say something. In terms of the fact that like, I'm just the player. Just me just giving my opinion. Whereas then, when I was captain, I was just thinking like, I need to say something proper jammies, I need to I need to be a leader I need to say something that will get the boys going instead of just like we said earlier saying something that's productive or something the boys need to hear it instead I'm thinking I need to rally the boys I need to get them going. So yeah, I think I was I was saying better, more productive things when I wasn't kept in. And obviously until we had the conversation with melody and and and that change but yeah, the confidence wise, like when I had the captaincy I was thinking and he together boys go is he to rally them up? Get right behind them? When really that wasn't the case, because we have boys in the change rooms who will do that anyway. Just because I'm captain now doesn't mean I have to then do it. If these boys already doing it, me doing it as well. What's the point? Jeremy, I can come from a different angle, arm around the shoulder, someone   Joe Partington  you've been in a lot of changing rooms. Now I've been in a lot of change rooms. And you know, there's probably a lot of guys listening, hopefully to this inside the changing room who might want to give their opinion but might not be confident enough to or, like you say might be overanalyzing if I say this with the guys buy into it or not. What advice would you give to those guys who, who obviously have an opinion and want to give it but might find speaking up difficult   Tom Lockyer  for me is it's something that it started a while back actually, I I went through a spell of having a few bad games and and I was I was getting a bit down and fans were saying this and that. And I just thought you know what? When I'm done with football, no one will remember me anyway. Like, why am I bothered? Why am I bothered? What the fans think Jeremy is one of them. I'm, I'm I'm listening to their opinions, and it's making me even worse and worse because because I'm valuing their opinion when really, they're gonna remember me after football. So why am I why am I why am I worried about what I'm going to what what they're saying? And that's the same as in the change rooms? No one's gonna remember. Do you remember what I used to say in the change rooms? No, exactly. No, no one's gonna remember, no one's gonna remember. So if you want to say something, say it. Simple as that. And that and that. That's, that's what, that's what I learned from obviously, having a few bar games with the fans. And I just took a step back and thought Why am I bothered? What people think of me. And now it's the same it's almost it's almost become my my daily life. Now. I honestly, if, unless, unless you're important to me, I don't care what you think of me. And it's quite a powerful thing to have. I feel.   Joe Partington  I think so too. I agree with that. And I can relate to that, in a way. Like when I was young. I remember thinking I've had a good game here of you know, obviously trying to get myself into the form of team who had fantastic players at the time. It was really difficult Charles sort of task for me to do. I remember having thought like, half played well. They're like, I feel really good. And after I got home as my mum that it said, Oh, someone online didn't think you were very good today. I was like why did Why'd you tell me that and it ruined my mood. I became anxious I became nervous and started going into training thinking other people think I'm people don't think I'm very good and it sort of allowed weight on my shoulders. The like you say took me out long time to do it, to really just think not having any benefit on me to put this pressure on myself or appreciate that someone's perception of me is that I'm not a very good player, that's fine. But I can't do anything about that. Yeah, and I want so obviously, the reason why I tell that story, I want to relate it to what you've just said, for people listening for guys, obviously, young young guys trying to make their way in football experience, guys who have played football for years. This, you know, clarification and, and people seeking out opinions of supporters and people outside the bubble. for their own benefit, when actually it can have a negative effect. How best in your opinion, is it to deal with that?   Tom Lockyer  For me, I, I like to, I like to think I'm I have, I have really thick skin, I'm very resilient. I have strong mentality, you know, kind of backs against the wall thing, I'll prove you're wrong, whatever I've got to do. And when it's going great, it's brilliant, like you probably know is when when everyone's singing your name, and you know, your mom's on the forum, and she saying our paths, everyone's loving you, you know, you're everyone's cup of tea. You're the next best thing since sliced bread, you feel amazing. And it can take your game to the next level. But then ultimately, the other side of it. When you're here and then bad things it then drags you down further. For me, it took me a while. I'm off social media now. And honestly, it's probably one of the best things I've ever done. I was I was gonna get in trouble with through Twitter just from replying to fans. And add a warning. And they said, you can't be doing that. And I just thought you're right. Why like, what am I doing? Why am I replying to Joe Bloggs? Who means nothing to me, and he was just trying to get me to nibble? Why am I doing it to myself. So I just came off it. And honestly, I've just been so much more positive since that, because I don't don't read any things I don't after like even go on there just I'd hardly ever posted anyway. And you just click the app button. And someone tells us that you something horrible just to just because you play for a different team from the support. Thinking like, this ain't for me, this ain't for me. And since I've got rid of it honestly, all that all the matters now depend on my family, friends, teammates, manager, no further than   Joe Partington  a lot of people it's actually quite public at the moment. I can't remember exactly who it was. But I've read recently that, you know, top elite players said exactly the same thing. So just becoming off social media just relieves almost pressure on, you know, your own mental health, your own positivity, that I'm not not starting my day with the weight of negative opinions on my shoulders. And because we both know what that can do to you in terms of your football as well. But the benefit of just not even reading it in the first place is so, so high that once you're obviously now in your position where you're you know, you're not bothered about it, you understand that that's only going to have a negative impact on your life. Just for people watching that, can you really sum up the benefit of doing that? I've just, I've just not looking not seeking it almost by coming off it and a lot of people won't. But what are the benefits? How, what are the benefits been for you?   Tom Lockyer  For me, it's been massive. Honestly, the the times I will just I think a lot of people can relate to me here you'll pick your phone up and if there's nothing on it, if there's no messages you have to reply to, you'll just open it anyway. And then you'll just click Instagram, you'll click Twitter, your scroll through it, you'll see what's happening. You know, everyone's on there living the perfect life is the grand full of all these beautiful things people live in luxury is it's just not for me. And since I've come off it it's been it's actually been fantastic. And I didn't I didn't and I don't miss it hardly as much as I thought I would. So I'm one of them once once it's out of sight out of mind doesn't doesn't bother me. So yeah, I won't be getting back on it in in any hurry. But yeah, I can see the positives of it as well. Obviously engaging with fans and stuff when when everything's going well and it's good. But for me, yeah, I'm probably better off about it.   Joe Partington  Just want to sum up this little bit maybe before before I move on into, you know, the next stage of our conversation but to round up what we've been discussing here responsibility and you know your role as a captain from a young age. What advice would you have for anybody else, you know of any age really either trying to be a captain or who are already strapped in, about how they can make that successful for them.   Tom Lockyer  For me, is, is be yourself. If you're if you're trying to be something, you're not, people will see it. People People will will find you out. People think, come on me, I knew. So just be yourself. And wherever that wherever being yourself is being that vocal leader in the changing rooms who's talking who's grilling people who's given advice, then so be it be that person, if, if a bit more like me, you were leading by example, doing everything in your possible possible power to be as straight and narrow as you can? And then be that if is, if being a leader? Is you doing something else, then then do that. But for me, just be yourself. Don't Don't try and be something you aren't.   Joe Partington  Something that is probably going to fit in quite nicely. And I think started your leadership journey, I guess. And something I can certainly relate to, and a lot of people listening will be able to is at the age of 16, when you spent five or six years in the academy at Cardiff, you were released, then, you know, you were told by them that you weren't going to be given a youth team contract, once you left school. What was that period of time? Like? Obviously, give us an insight into how that conversation went, how it made you feel? And what did you do immediately after that.   Tom Lockyer  So for me that I still remember it that week was probably the hardest week of my life. My nan, who was living with us at the time, passed away, I think two days before I went in at that meeting. So obviously, that was that was still very raw, and a tough time for me. And then going into that meeting, I didn't really know what to expect. I didn't go in there with any expectations. I wasn't sure. So I didn't I didn't build anything up either way. But then kind of went into that conversation. I remember it now. I kind of had like, one, one, maybe two people back in my corner in there. And three saying like no. And when in the in the academy manager near largely it was. And he just said, so well. So if we if we take it back a little bit further than that I always used to play right back through through through the years. And then one of the setbacks got injured one time, and I've filled in there done really well and ended up just playing like a full season there. Because the under 16 manager at the time, just like love me, they're just all 15 Whatever it was just like I used to read the game really well in that. But I was I was a late developer I was really small. I was probably five one or whatever it was at the time. Like paper thin and that so then when I went in to to the thing, and I got nearly there and he said no, you're you're a good player. But you're you're not big enough, you're not strong enough. You're not tall enough for for for place on earth. And I was just kind of like wow, like nothing to do with any thing I can control. It's and it's everything to do with what I can't control. So I was just like, You know what, I'll, I'll prove you wrong. That was that was my mentality. As soon as we left that meeting, it was like I'm gonna prove you wrong. Now like I'm not having it like I'm going to prove you wrong. And like I said, like, it's things I couldn't control but what I could control was obviously not the tall, tall like growing size but physically. So I went gym four times five times a week from then on. Even when my mates I was on the protein shakes I was on absolutely everything to try and try and get a bit more physical because because nearly said I'm never going to make it because I am physical enough. So if if that was to be the case, it wasn't going to be for lack of trying on my part. So I ended up doing that. went on trial to Bristol Rovers and Exeter ended up getting offered by both chose Bristol Rovers in the end and honestly turned out to be the best thing that ever happened to me getting released from Cardiff it was it's looking back on it now. There's boys there at the time. It was so much better than me. Obviously at the time you don't really you don't really see Do you but looking back on it, it was boy so much better than me. We've just gone on and done nothing, and a lot of them have have gone out the game now, which is quite sad for the talent that they all add. But going out there playing men's football from early learning the hard way. You know, tough love tough school, we had one of the toughest toughest under as coaches I've think ever existed. So that was that was, that was really tough. That was just like, that was like a make or break. A lot of boys in the under 18 didn't end up making it just because they couldn't put up with him. And I was almost one of them. So is a story I've not actually actually told many people, but when, when I was I think it was first year scholar. And I could do nothing right for this geezer I would play well, and I'd know I'd play well within myself. And I would still get shouted out, but then there will be boys who I know. I'm playing better than it's doing better than they are. They're making mistakes. And he's not shouting at them. I'm thinking, this guy hates me. I can't do anything right here. So I remember I called called My mum and dad and my mom came over to Bristol to see me and said, Look, what's wrong, I told them my problems. I said, Look, I'm just not enjoying it. Only. I'm only doing this because I love doing it. You know, you notice like you don't do it for the money or anything to us, if you want to do it because you love playing football. And she was and I was like I'm not enjoying it. So I don't want to do I want to go back to school when I go to uni when my when my powers back home. And she was like, love. That's fine. I remember we sat in and there was love, that's fine. Do whatever makes you happy. I'll always be a few no matter what. And then. So that was it left actually drove back to Cardiff. I went back to Bristol and I was thinking, I said I told the boy I was living with I said, Look, that's probably me. going to probably be gone tomorrow. I get a phone call from my dad. And he's like or sup? And I said, obviously you spoke to us. And he said, Yeah. Look, I'm 100% behind you, you you make your own decisions. If you're not happy, that's absolutely fine. But why you don't why you shouldn't do is isn't, is leave this opportunity that a lot of boys would give their right arm for without having a conversation with the man who's making you so unhappy. So the next day I went in. And I went to speak to him to basically say how unhappy I was. And he said, he said I had no idea you felt like I'm so sorry. The only reason I shout at you and keep on you so much and you feel like I hate you is because you're one of the two players here who I genuinely think have a chance in the game. So I've gone from leaving, and absolutely hating it to going back to you. And he was all my pals to absolute CLOUD NINE, like, come on, and less of it less go like this is me now nothing's gonna stop me shout at me all you want. I know. I know. It's because you think I can do this? And that was that was Yeah, but yeah, I'll know I've rambled on a bit there. But going back to that, yeah, leaving Cardiff was the best thing that ever happened to me.   Joe Partington  I think if we can dissect that story that you've just told a little bit, so we can obviously relate it to people that are listening. You go out of your comfort zone as a young guy to go and speak to a man in football, obviously, that was making you feel unhappy. And I think in life in general, that's you know, that's incredibly brave. But in football specifically, it's incredibly brave, because reaching out and having conversations with people who you may think are not into me like I have to speak to that person about why is the manager left me out. Difficult Conversations in football aren't often as difficult as what you think they might be. I mean by that, yeah,   Tom Lockyer  you've you've hit the nail on the head there. You and I don't know whether whether it is just football, but you build it up in your head a lot worse than what is ever going to be joining me. And I'm sure you've had a lot of difficult conversations over the years as well. And they don't ask her now it's easier than you think. So yeah, the thought of going to speak to that man. The thought of going to speak to him was a lot worse than the conversation that we actually had. I'm building it up, I'm building up and I'm scared of going approaching when's the best time to go in tell him, I'm looking at him in a Can I chat to him now, I'm just worried all day and, and in the end, you're just like, gone, nothing to lose, you're gonna you're gonna leave anyway, if it if it goes out you think is gonna go? Just get in there and see him. So I remember just going in and I said that could have a word, please. And he's like, yeah, and told him. And yeah, the conversation went a lot better than than I ever thought it was gonna be. But I think then conversations need to be had, if there's anything playing on your mind, especially in football, you just need to get off your chest, don't you, you know, you can't have you can't have things eating away at you. It will only drag you down.   Joe Partington  I mean, we're obviously I'm a little bit older than you, believe it or not, for people who are watching on on the video. But we now know having those conversations with managers, and coaches, players, whoever it might be, isn't as difficult of what it is maybe when you feel like when you're young. And if for whatever reason you have problems and you build them up in your mind. Again, just you know, I'm trying to give us people as much info as possible if if they're young players listening to this, and they're feeling anxious about having conversations with their manager, or about they feel a certain way and don't feel like they can share that. What is the benefit of you know, speaking about it, I know mental health is obviously incredibly important and popular to talk about now. But what are the benefits of people just speaking about their problems and air in their anxieties?   Tom Lockyer  You honestly feel like a weight has been lifted off your shoulders. So in that situation, I just felt like a tonne of bricks and just gone from my, from my back. And I was just free to spread my wings and, and enjoy it again. And it was just like a completely new man after a 1520 minute conversation. And it was fantastic. But I think having conversations in general, especially when I was a younger player, I think helped me a lot. I used to go and see the manager. And just ask about how I can improve how I can do this, how I can do that. Why am I not playing at the right time? Obviously, you have to do that last one with a bit of respect, I feel you can't just go and like knock a manager's door as an 18 year old and say why don't I play in Germany, but I think they respect you more for coming in and seeing them face to face instead of going in your in your groups and saying to me, Oh, why is he not playing me? What do I mean? What am I doing wrong? And all this just just go on out and say, What have I got to do to get in your team? Simple as that. And I genuinely think when I was a young lad and I was having them conversations with managers, they were respecting me more for having that conversation with them. They're like, Oh, all right. He's not scared to do that. And he genuinely wants to play. He wants to play for me. And I think I think it's a good thing to have them conversations.   Joe Partington  I totally agree with you. I've had, you know, I've worked with many young guys, here included, that are my advice to them has been to just talk to managers and include them in what they want to do. So obviously, you're saying that they're about someone being left out of the team. My advice would always be not to ask, Why am I not in the team? But to ask how can I get into the team. So now suddenly, managers coaches are buying into you there, as you say, they're respecting you a little bit more and your attitude towards the process you're trying to, obviously gain to become a player on the team or to improve your game in in whatever way is now a process that the manager wants to help you with. Instead of thinking, you know, unconsciously thinking I can't buy into him because his attitude is off a little bit. Is that something that you've experienced, though? Over the years? Yeah, I   Tom Lockyer  think you're spot on there. And it's when you have them them conversations. I I remember having one with Daryl Clark. And I said what have I got to do to be the first name on your team sheet every week. And I used to I used to ask him that the start of every season. And by the second season, he said, You are You said you aren't my first name on the team share every week. But it wasn't. It wasn't it was like, What have I got to do to play every week? It wasn't why aren't I playing every week Exactly. Like you said, and then he says, well, I need this from you. I need this from you. I need this from you. And then it's after training. Ah see, can I borrow you for half an hour? I need to work on this. What are we working on this? Because this will get me in the team. And then you go from there. And then you can really start to kick on that and then it's not even that because the gaffer is looking at his office window and he's thinking oh, still out on a training pitch. And he's gonna look old locks. He's working on what I told him to work on and he's he's he's ruined feud and Jeremy.   Joe Partington  Yeah, absolutely. And we can talk about obviously rovers in a little bit more So now you were there for a while. And unfortunately as you started, just the play on on your journey, the club were relegated into the National League that resulted in back to back promotions taking the club back into Ligue one. And you were heavily involved in all of that. I think, you know that I've got the stats, but I think you've played in almost every game to be honest. What does the club's relegation out of the Football League do to you? And why do you think that that resulted in such enormous collective and individual success for you in the next two seasons?   Tom Lockyer  Firstly, that relegation was probably one of the hardest times I've had in my career, obviously, being a young lad in the game, my first full season where I've played, I think I paid 40 games or whatever it was, and then to get relegated at the end of it. And yeah, I Well, personally, I felt like it was my fault. I played 40 games here. Obviously, there's a lot more than just just me what happened there? And, you know, I went back to Cardiff after after that last game, and I don't think I left my room for three days. And it was only when my old school friends came round and, and I think my mom takes my old school friends to say, can you come and get him out of his room like, he's real low marks the first time I come out my room and, and fought for help, because it was almost like the world ended for me. I was like, Where do I go from here? Clearly, I'm not good enough. And all this. But like for me at Cardiff, it was probably the best thing ever after me get released for Bristol Rovers as a club. I think getting relegated was probably one of the best things that happened to that club. Well, going back up at the first attempt was, was a must. But I think getting relegated allowed Darrell Clarke to rebuild the shape and team and, and the infrastructure of the club as to exactly how he wanted it. And he had a clear vision of the direction he wanted to go. And he bought lowly plays in like cinco, obviously, we've had on a fantastic player, fantastic person. And people who would buy into him, and it was just a great place to be for, for Manuel, first season aside the whole time I was there absolutely brilliant place to be.   Joe Partington  So for us specifically, after those three days, because we know that football is very emotive, it's very high, it's very low. And I can imagine that you haven't had a loan like that. How did after that three day period of you know you're in your room, your mother's asking your friends to come and get you out your room? What did you do to then approach the next season and be so successful?   Tom Lockyer  So I think we had a meeting with Daryl after that season has finished, I think it was probably about a week after. And I remember going into that meeting, like sheepish just like I don't know, I don't know what he's gonna say, I have no idea where I'm gonna go from here. Is he going to release me? Like, thank God, I've gotten a year left on my contract. And all these things running through my head, obviously, young lad not really know what to expect. And he just he came in, he said, Look, first things first, I want you to know that that relegation has nothing to do with you. You've been outstanding this year. So straightaway, I'm just like, wow, like, thank you so much. But then he was like, then we had the conversation, because obviously that season, I played a deep liar and centre midfield player. I've never really played there before. But John watch put me in there. And I just seem to like me that so I just stayed there. And then, and then we had the conversation he said, said, Where? Where do you see yourself playing next year? I said, Well, now you're asking me this question. I'm guessing it's not sent to MIT. And he goes, No, I don't I don't think it is not not the way I'm looking to take this team forward. And I was like, okay, so So where does that leave me? And he said, he said, not really too sure at the minute but I just I just know that I need a Tom Lockyer in my team somewhere. And I was just like, wow, that's that's good to hear. And then the next season after that. So the conference season when we came back up at the first attempt, they ended up playing full season, right back. And, and then it was only it's only after that when we went into lead to Where, where I started to nail down, sent her off. And then who's that who's at that time, I was probably around 1920, where I had the conversation with my dad, he was kind of like you, you don't want to be a jack of all trades Master of None, it's about time you try and try and nail down a position or, or at least have a position where you're, you're trusted and you're reliable. And that's where people see you play. Not that you can't play elsewhere. But but have a position. So if someone's gonna sign you or talk about you, you're Tom lucky at the centre I have for you, Tom Nikita, right back. And that was that took that took till 1920 to actually nail down a physician in the end.   Joe Partington  What are the pros that happens with a lot of young guys that happened to me, certainly I played similar to you in deep line, the field road centre, midfield roles, sends the right roles for years, really, without ever nailing anything down. And I feel like in hindsight, it hindered me because I wasn't the main player of one spot. And by being deputy and many, you don't become obviously the priority and one. What are the pros and cons between both playing both roles for you? And what would you advise that people do more of in terms of being able to play multiple positions is obviously a great way of getting yourself in the team. But it might not be a great way of, you know, having one solid position that's going to allow you to be successful? What would you argue that is the best way to go?   Tom Lockyer  The best way to go would be the best player in the world in one position. I'll be amazing. Now I think I think like what you said, when when you're trusted and you're able to play multiple positions, you will find yourself getting in the team. More than someone who can only play one position is just just the fact that especially as a young lad, when you just you're all you really care about is just trying to get on that pitch if you can come up because obviously I came on I obviously mentioned sentiment right back in that I made my debut as a left winger, I scored my first goal as a right winger. I was playing all these positions, but for me, it just shows that I have a good football knowledge, good football, brain, good football understanding of where I've got to be disciplined enough to be trusted in positions that I have no clue about. So yeah, it is good in that sense. But then I do think like you said, it becomes a point where you drop out drive and nail one down. And you can be this player instead of then just keep floating about and just become a utility man almost   Joe Partington  the next few years. Obviously, in that National League season conferences and you guys get promoted, you get promoted from lead to the next year, you spend the next three seasons in Ligue one, and you in particular as an individual, obviously, having shared the pitch with you were performing at a, you know, a really elite level for that standard. How were you able to step up from the National League and to Ligue two and perform to a top to a top level and then step up again, from Ling toes to Ligue one so quickly and also step up to that level as well. What was it you know, can you give us an insight into specifically what it was about you that allowed you to do that so successfully? I   Tom Lockyer  think you touched on the responsibility side we talked about earlier where no stones unturned in in you know, if I needed to work on something, I'm working on it after training. And Stuart Sinclair we touched on earlier it was massive for that as well. The manual times you Me Me and him would stay behind after training you know, and it's not it doesn't just just us to doing it then if then like, someone looks over and sees us to stay and out, or you're staying out, and then someone else will be like, Wow, I feel bad walking in now. I might stay out and just do a little bit extra and it just rubs off. builds the team everyone's in you ask them what did I just swallow?   Joe Partington  Must be a fly? Oh my god. Fucking hell. It's been knocking about you for a while that fly as well. Keep trying to get   Tom Lockyer  genuine Florida.   Joe Partington  I think it must have been Oh my god. Start from talking about staying out doing extra is rubbing off on people.   Tom Lockyer  Yeah, so if if So stay staying out doing extras. And, you know, it's it's one of those things that rubs off on people if, if you look over and you know, sessions finished, you're allowed to go in if you want, if you then look over and boys are staying out and, and doing their extras working on things they need to improve on to make them better, and you're walking in, you're then going to reconsider and be like, well, maybe I should stay on work on my game as well. And then that then drives everyone forward, everyone's improving the team's improving, you're then coming up against the, you know, a better job part in turn in training, who's gonna then improve me and make me better, and then I'm gonna make a centre, strike a better jahmene. And then consistently, the wheels turn in emotions, to improve. And then you all rub off on each other to make each other better players.   Joe Partington  I'm interested to get your thoughts on. A lot of people, hopefully listening to this podcast, are going to be trying to improve their game off the back of your experiences in your opinions. That's what we're trying to do ultimately, is give people you know, as much information as possible that can help improve their game for people who aren't in environments where as you say, a lot of people are staying out doing extra, we're all pushing each other to improve. We're like minded guys who've spoke about football most days and spoke about it in such depth that you know, of course, we're going to improve. But guys, there are environments where that isn't happening. And they're not surrounded by people who are trying to improve them, but they want to improve themselves. How can they go about doing that?   Tom Lockyer  Marcus Stewart came into training one time and he brought in Gary Nevels book and he had all these post it notes in a book and if one of them said locks on because I think the week before we were on about doing extras and and I must have mentioned to him like a few of the boys are getting on to me. I think this was like not sure when I think this was a season we got relegated as I call a few of the boys are on to me calling me busy for for staying out doing extras and that and he came in and he had this posting it opened up and he's gearing novel and gearing novels book he said I used to I used to have to have my lunch I used to go out get a few balls and knock lectures left footed against the canteen wall because it was the biggest Wally yard or something. And people all the menu players used to walk past him and call him a busy bastard. And he said that he didn't let that determined what he was trying to achieve or who he was trying to become someone else's opinion. And then when when Marcus showed me that I was just kind of like, Well, Gary Neville can do it. I can do it. I ain't gonna let anyone else dictate to me what, what their opinion, or what we spoke on earlier. And before I actually had that, you know, I don't care what anyone thinks it was it was Marcus almost brought it into me just just from that, just from that little snippet in the book you show me.   Joe Partington  We'll go back to your career again. You got to a level in Ligue one with Bristol Rovers, obviously, where, and we'll talk about it in a bit of depth in a minute, where you were involved in the Welsh national team, a lot of people outside of the club, and everybody inside of the club felt like you were ready for, you know, for a higher level. What evidence that you have that stepping up was an achievable move. Because obviously, most players, of course, they want to move up to a higher level. But how were you sure that you were ready for that?   Tom Lockyer  To be honest with you wasn't. You see, until you go and you find out for yourself, you'll never know. You can be as confident as you want. And obviously that does help. But until you actually go and find out you'll never know. So that's what I didn't want to have. I didn't want to have them regrets of, oh, I wish I'd done this or I wish I'd done that. I want to finish my career with no regrets. So there was a time obviously, when I was in Ligue one, and I had a taste for the whale squad. My I think I made my debut while I was still at Bristol Rovers but never a competitive match. I was never trusted for a competitive match. He was always the boys playing in the championship, who in a competitive match, but once I had that taste for that, Wales and the passion and you know, my my mom was the most passionate Welsh woman ever. A whole house had like Welsh dragons over she used to say your Welsh not British and all this My obviously obviously rubbed off on my mum and down onto myself. I just needed more of it I you know, it was like it was an addiction. And like we said earlier, I'm not going to be outworked for something that I want. And ultimately that I looked at, I looked at take a step back and said, What do I need to do to be getting this Welsh team competitive games regularly. And I could stay out and be the best player in the world in Ligue one. But I looked in and said, I ain't gonna play unless I'm, I'm in the championship. So that's when I was like, no regrets. If I go, and I can't make that step. At least I've tried it. And, and it's with the best intentions. But obviously, if I, if I can make that step, then as the next step I need in my career and for Wales.   Joe Partington  What advice would you give to guys who like you have experienced success? About how to approach building on that instead of settling on it? Like you had done?   Tom Lockyer  I think that just comes from within just needs to be hungry, you need to be really hungry for it. What do you genuinely want from it? If you want, like, whatever you want, in life, if you're hungry enough, if you're determined enough to go and get it, you will, it's as simple as that. If, if you don't, you won't. I can't put any more simple than that. And, you know, there's times where I, you know, I'm like, I should really go to the gym today, but I just can't be asked, and it's one of them, like, Will Will, Will it really matter if I miss one gym session, and then, you know, one could lead to too, you know, if I just drag myself and then as soon as I'm there, you know, then it's worth more work mode on and you get in, you get in in 50 more reps than the boys who didn't go to the gym today. And then you're out working them again, in that sense, and yeah, it's like I said, if you're hungry enough for something, you'll do it.   Joe Partington  Let's move on quite smoothly then into your international career as as far in 2015 Like say you were called up to the national squad while still playing for rovers, which was an incredible achievement in itself but to obviously be playing Ligue one at your age and be involved in the national team was was enormous really having been your friend for a while now obviously, I know how much that moment meant to you. And we've just discussed the environment and what that did for your hunger about playing at high level give us the details of what was it that you saw on those first Welsh camps What were you seeing off players that you know that gave you that hunger and that drive to want to replicate what they were doing?   Tom Lockyer  Yeah, so I've mean it up first, I was in absolute or when I went away Wales, you've got Gareth Bale you've got Aaron Ramsey you've got Joe Allen all absolute heroes of mine from that 2016 euros semi final when they reached that absolute heroes of mine. And then you know, summer later I'm I'm involved with them on on a on a summer camps to Portugal. And I'm in absolute awe of absolute everyone on this camp. And I remember speaking to old man and he just said, you know, just just showing what you can do. Just as no regrets, show him what you can do. And, you know, I'm still in absolute awe. And I remember Gareth Bale after training just taking five or six free kicks. And he's doing his run up and I'm just I'm just staring at him like this is absolutely amazing. I remember one we played one small sided game where Joe Allen played a no look pass with the outside of his foot in between in between two defenders and someone ran through and scored and I was just like, that is bloody amazing. And I was just enough to do all of these people and is is like once once that settled, and then their nerves went on I realised they are just normal people. And then I started playing my own football I wasn't nervous, you know, just like don't give me the ball kind of thing or you have a straight back started playing my football doing my thing and I was thinking you know what, I'm not I'm not million miles away from these people. You know, they they are my superheroes but I'm not million miles away from them. So it just it just bred confidence for me that you know what this is something I can actually do and I can actually achieve because growing up obviously you dream of playing for Wales and that but realistically when I'm when I'm in the in the National League with Bristol Rovers is It's not something I'm thinking this is ever going to happen. It's not even something that I'll be honest, it didn't even cross my mind. So I've actually, I think it's the in caps now and lucky 13. So might be stuck on that forever, but it's the more than, you know, I ever thought was possible when, when I was in when I was in the conference.   Joe Partington   What were the main things that you saw on those initial webcams that you took with you back to Bristol Rovers that helped you improve your F?   Tom Lockyer  And I think, you know, the shear Well, first of all the door well, setup was absolutely fantastic. There was no stone unturned, it was amazing. It was like, probably like walking into a Premier League facilities. Which obviously, I didn't have a Bristol Rovers. So that like, obviously that was that was amazing to start with. But then it was things like Gareth Bale was doing extra warm ups with his physio and working on his speed before training. And I was thinking, and I remember we everyone else is on the bikes, but he's doing his own thing, working on his speed and power. And I'm thinking it hasn't just happened to him by mistake. He's worked for this. And then that that just just went on to, to how I feel is in like, I won't be outworked for anything. You know if I can see Gareth Bale doing extra work before training to work on his speed and power. What's gonna stop me doing it? What's my excuse?   Joe Partington  I think the perception sometimes, obviously, I've not been exposed to that environment. It's not seen it like you have. But people's perceptions of players. Sometimes it's always lucky to be there or he's there by chance. Or, you know, he's he's not done anything to deserve that. Can you tell us, you know, these elite guys, and I'm including you in that because obviously you're in that elite environment. But the elite guys you've mentioned them Ramzi, Joe Allen, Gareth Bale.   Tom Lockyer  What were they doing?   Joe Partington  That you saw, obviously, you've just touched on Gareth Bale was initial warm up. But what were these guys? How did they live their life? Or what was it about them that you think allowed them to, you know, to be at the very top of the game?   Tom Lockyer  Yeah, so like we touched on, on guys earlier. And, you know, he's, like I said, I looked at him. And I just thought, you know, this hasn't happened by mistake, but he's been very unlucky with injuries. And it could just people looking from the outside just be or what he's injury prone, or they don't see is the amount of rehab and prehab he does every single day to make sure their injuries don't happen again. And of course, you're gonna get unlucky, especially when you're a player like he is, it was absolutely rapid and get smashed all the time, these injuries will happen. But there's no stone unturned from these top top elite players. So they, they can't have no excuses, really. Because they won't allow it, they will not allow, they will not allow it to happen. They leave nothing to chance. And then they'll have the extra work in the evenings off the physios and stuff or just little, I call them 1%. But all these one percents add up. And before you know if you've gained 10%, before you know it, then you've gained 15% jahmene on on these other people who think oh, well, that's only 1% That's only one but don't bother with that. That's 1% These people are doing absolutely everything to be at the top peak of their game. And like I said, they're not there by mistake.   Joe Partington  So what were the main differences and I want to go into a little bit more depth on this and say what were the main differences between the environment of that top elite national team and Ligue one Bristol Rovers, and the depth that I want you to go into is, is legal in Bristol Rovers is obviously a really high level for somebody who's playing in the seventh tier of non league who still wants to become a professional footballer. So we're talking about Ligue one Bristol Rovers being a high level, what were the main differences of the two? The two standards? Or the two environments?   Tom Lockyer  Yeah, so the environments just a lot more professional. The well setup was everything was catered for. Everything was done if you needed anything, it's all sorted. nutritions spot on, everything was just absolute top tier. It was kinda like, expense doesn't matter, kind of thing. We know nothing's left   Joe Partington  and maybe Yeah, a little bit more interested in, obviously the facilities maybe go without saying that they were better, but the mentality of the, you know, just the general mentality of the players from a Ligue one Bristol Rovers to a top elite national team.   Tom Lockyer  So I don't know about mentality because when, when How was Bristol Rovers Ligue one, you know, you because you were the we had a winning mentality that we needed to win. And that's the same same at Wales as well. And, you know, there's the steps in difference. Obviously, you get the top top players, but then then the rest, the difference in the levels aren't, aren't that high. Obviously, maybe in Ligue one at the time to be able to step in shows shows that. But the main thing for me, obviously, I mentioned the, the no expenses, but the main thing for me is the amount of detail that goes in to every single training session and tactically how we're going to set up against this team, where we're going to press how we're going to press what I want you to do when you're in this position, when you receive the ball here, what I want you to do, the amount of detail, I've never seen anything like it in, in my time in football. And when I stepped into that Wales camp, it was it was it was frightening the amount of detail that went into absolutely everything. I've never seen so many whiteboards in my life during my first first few whales camps but you know, I loved it. I absolutely loved it. And you know, it's like the top boys you know, when you know my night play, man see? Both absolutely fantastic plays, goes without say it, and the game is one, not from them fantastic players doing what they do. But them little details, how we're going to press how we're going to what we're going to do when we get the ball, that that work that goes on in the week is what makes the difference because on paper two absolutely fantastic teams who could just go out here, hammer and tong Jeremy,   Joe Partington  do you think you set yourself high standards? You've just give us an insight into obviously, the standards of I'm talking about one of the world's best arguably ever players and Gareth Bale. Do you think those training standards are attainable for guys listening to this podcast or maybe playing at levels that aren't that high? So you know, these guys are still trying to improve their football hopefully, by listen to this, they're still trying to become professional footballers and play at the highest level that they possibly can, but they might be at a low level now is training to an elite level standard attainable for these guys.   Tom Lockyer  To to a certain degree, yes. Because you can only obviously if you need a session with other people, you can only have what was with you. But if you want to go out and do and trade to an elite level by yourself or use mannequins you can do that absolutely no problem. And when we say elite level, even in a team session, you can set your own standards. You can you can be the best player on that pitch in the training game. You can be the one who turns up five minutes 10 minutes early to do your extra work or stay 510 minutes after to do your extra work. You don't you don't need anyone else for that. So all these things like I said the 1% is they add up they are absolutely massive. And if you do want to reach that elite level I think the more 1% you can do be that nutrition staying behind gym, etc. The more 1% You can do the more chance you have of making it   Joe Partington  keeps dropping down to Mesa was trying to get it   Tom Lockyer  you got to dodge you on me   Joe Partington  we're not far off me.   Tom Lockyer  The 1% is not mine actually happening? I've got from jazz at Leuven strength conditioning coach always puts in like one percents like where your recovery leggins   Joe Partington  hopefully finished all over again. Need a new one you All right ready? Yeah so for still such a young guy, as previous Lee discussed you've experienced an awful lot already. What do you think the main differences are from an 18 year old Tom Lockyer to the Tom lock? Yeah, that's in front of me now.   Tom Lockyer  I'd say I'm a lot less naive now. And I'm a lot more streetwise Nope. Back then it was just all about playing as many games as I can just because I love doing it. And putting myself through some things that I wouldn't put myself through now. Back then, like Bristol Rovers, just because I loved playing the games I I tore my deltoid ligament in my uncle. And it wasn't sent for a scan or anything. It was just kind of like we need you for this game. I knew I wasn't right. I knew I wasn't right. I knew if I go out I'm I'm I'm playing it. 60 70% Yeah. But he's like the gaffer needs you physios like Strapping, you'll be fine. I knew I knew it myself. I wasn't fine. And is caused me a lot of a lot of problems further down the line. And I'll now I wouldn't, I wouldn't put myself through that to play games. I would go and get that right. And yeah, that's probably my biggest regrets actually is playing through that injury just for the sake of playing games. Because it's caused me a hell of a lot of problems further down the line.   Joe Partington  So what are the main differences?   Tom Lockyer  No, probably not the main difference. Yeah, streetwise, probably, probably the main difference. I feel like you learn well, I feel like when you reach the first team, you're expected to know it all. And you stop learning. While you stop getting coached to learn. You get coached to win. But I also feel like when you play first in games, you learn a hell of a lot more than what you would if you weren't playing. And picking up things from experienced pros who've been around the game seen it done it is is absolutely vital. And crucial. Mark McChrystal was probably one of the best people I've ever learned from fantastic. And not even not even the fact that used to like pull me and tell me things but just just listening and learning and just playing alongside him you pick up so much more streetwise little nudges on strikers body positions, turning your body so you know, the strike or run into your back instead of your shoulder. Everyone knows if it goes into your back as well. Just little things that you pick up that you you don't get taught in, in youth team or in training. Yeah, so I think streetwise is probably probably the biggest thing. Biggest difference for me,   Joe Partington  what I'm also hearing a little bit is that once you are in a first team football environment, that you're advising people to not stop learning to continue to do that. And that once you reach that first thing that's not obviously you know, that you've achieved your goal. And that's finished, that that continuing to learn continuing to improve is really important.   Tom Lockyer  It's massive. Yeah. And it's like what we said earlier, you know, if you're a little bit scared to say something or do something, or not know, it's hard. But this this is like, I was lucky because I had Martha Stewart there who had done the aundre teens with me for a little while. So I knew him and I could I could pull him and say, after training, I want to work on this. I want to do this, I want to learn this. Whereas I know some people can step up to a first team and and you know you're straight and first team, you're a little bit sheepish. You're in your shell, you know, you don't want to ruffle any feathers. You don't want to pull a first team coach and say, Look, I really I really want to work on this. Or the youth team boys. We're working on this in training, which obviously I've missed being here. Do you mind if we do a little bit, but I promise you now, if you do go and have that conversation if you are a young lad stepping into the first team, then first team coaches We'll respect you a hell of a lot more than if you didn't. And that's a guarantee.   Joe Partington  So, to finish, what advice would you give to an 18 year old you   Tom Lockyer  don't play with them deltoid ligament injuries or stars. Right one, come off social media. You don't need it. to normalise it, what would I tell myself? I enjoy it. That's what I say enjoy it. When I was younger, I used to get almost I was almost bipolar. With the results of football games. Always. When we won, it was the best thing in the world. Those ever happened to me. And when we lost, I was the miserable as geezer I've ever, ever come across. And that happened until I was about 20 to 23 where I realised Yes, losing, losing is rubbish, but it's not the end of the world. And I think if I learned that an earlier age that would have been, that would have been very beneficial to me. But then would that have taken away? My winning attitude? I don't know.   Joe Partington  I've had this conversation with sinks as well. And he won't mind me saying that. And a lot of other guys that I've spoken to have said to enjoy it more. But the problem was trying to enjoy something more is that you lose the element of, you know, hunger, maybe desire, that emotion that drive you to success. That would your path be the same way if if your perception was to enjoy everything, you know, I'm not too sure it would be so I understand what you mean. And I understand as the people listening that your advice is to enjoy those moments. But also, I think, to go into detail on that my perception of that is that enjoy the feeling. I don't I'm not going to tell people to enjoy the feeling of getting beat. But just enjoy that whole process of that you've been beat. And by getting beat, you now want to win so badly that you'll do anything to achieve that. And that's the process that you enjoy. Not actually losing a game. Yeah, yeah.   Tom Lockyer  Yeah, I think you put it right there. Because, you know, no one wants to be happy when they lose a game. But also, I don't want to be miserable bastard for Can I swear on this?   Joe Partington  You've done all right, not too eager.   Tom Lockyer  I don't want to be miserable, you know, salt for free days after a loss. But then obviously, you don't want to enjoy losing. So you know, where's that balance? I think if I could find a balance, and I think I've gone all right balance now. I really love winning. And losing isn't the end of the world for me, which it used to be. But like we said, would I be here sat here now, if that wasn't the case? I don't know. I don't know.   Joe Partington  Listen, Tom, thank you for that. That was you know that was really insightful. I really appreciate you giving us a you know, a proper look into your experiences and your advice and hopefully people listening to this will will be able to improve them and football off the back of a   Tom Lockyer  pleasure. Thank you for having me.